fried xw6848?

AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
Good day all,
I've been co-opted to help my parents out of a mess they got themselves into with an off grid install. A non experienced electrican installed the system, and it has yet to come on line due to some incredibly stupid mistakes he made. I've had a huge learning curve in the last week and have most of it straightened out. My problem now is that the Schneider xw6848 inverter was connected to the battery bank while it was connected totally in series, delivering approx. 192 vdc to the inverter momentarily. I have corrected the bank wiring, but the inverter is not powering up at all. I've contacted Schneider tech assist, but they have not replied yet. Is there anyone familiar enough with this inverter to give me a place to start? It appears that there are serviceable components, I just need to figure out what may have fried. Thanks for any help I advance.

Josh

Comments

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭
    My guess would be control board(s), but I don't know much about that inverter. Voltage that high could arc, and batteries can supply huge surge current. I wouldn't be surprised if there are multiple failures as one circuit path burns out, current finds another :-(
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Unfortunately, I'm thinking the same. I've yet to hear back from Schneider, so I'm hoping they might shed some light on this. Closer inspection today revealed that the board at the DC connection lugs/bus bar (there is an induction coil there that the DC in current passes through, presumably to monitor load) has several small capacitors that show signs of being blown. No other visible capacitors show this, so here's to hoping that's the issue. I'm very fearful that the damage is actually in the main transformer, in which case I imagine inverter replacement will make the most sense. We will see.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭✭
    Not good! I have heard of them surviving ( 2) 48 volt strings in series (remember Bill) but you definitely need a new Power bridge PCB and hopefully it stopped there. Fairly expensive and DC over-voltage is logged and Schneider will know. Some of the parts you are seeing are the back sides of the power mosfets that are toast.

    When contacting them you need a case number. Without it you will not get taken care of. I only telephone them business hours because I do not have time to play e-mail tag.

    Who did they buy from? The store here can help if they sold it. Good Luck




    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd; try to get the box the inverter came in, and try to make it the electricians' problem.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭✭
    Definitely! It is a box on a wood crate BTW and you can't ship it without the ties, a big roll of the dice if it is not packed right.

    He was over his head as almost any electrician is taught to measure then energize a circuit or device. The OP does not need to worry about the transformer as it would take 5 times that voltage to even stress that transformer. It must weigh 70 pounds.


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    So Schneider referred us to their closest service center, some 350 miles away. Distance doesn't matter however, as they did not answer any emails or return any calls. The original supplier is Sun Electronics in Miami, and they curtailed operations Wednesday for Irma. A new inverter has been ordered, shipping from Pennsylvania, hopefully arriving midweek. The hope is that we can get the system up and running, then get the fried unit repaired to be either sold or kept as a spare. Thank you for the responses and insight, I'm sure I'll have some more questions as this system is brought online.
  • AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Ok, so the new inverter is installed, and is working fine. My next issue is with the PV array. The system was designed with 22 panels, and I've had to correct the wiring on them. Until more wire and connectors were procured, I had wired 2 arrays of 3 panels each I series , and was getting approx 100vdc at the disconnect, perfect. I could run 4 panels, but in direct sun, they would bump against the charge controller upper limit of 140 vdc. I started wiring the remainder of the panels today, which entailed 2 arrays, wired in 3 groups each, 3x3x3x2. Everything was going perfectly until I brought the last group, 2 panels, on line. It actually brought the voltage of the other groups from 100vdc to 80-82 vdc, while producing the predicted 65-68 vdc, and slowly falling as The sun angle became oblique The system is putting a solid 17-19 amps into the battery bank, according to the charge controller. I am going to see what tom orroe brings with full sun again, but is there something going on that would cause what I'm seeing? I checked and rechecked the wiring, and all is in order for the series/parallel combination.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭
    I would leave the last string of 2 panels disconnected. You want the voltage of all the strings to be about the same.

    As for strings of 4, you'd have to multiply Voc for you panel x 4, and adjust for your coldest low temp. Likely 4 is too much.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited September 19 #10
    :05PM

    It looks like I'm going to end up leaving one panel out, to keep 7 strings of 3. I'll possibly use the odd one to power some DC lighting outdoors, but that smile next year.

    Now for thr next issue. I've got 1000 ah @48 vdc on 4 strings of 8 6 volt batteries, charging well on PV, but since I need to bring the other array online, I'm trying to get generator charging operational in this off grid system. Connecting the Gen as prescribed in the wiring diagram, through the 60a breaker in the PDP, when AC power is applied, then qualified, the unit switches to charging, and amps (per the LCD) climb steadily to over 100, bringing the Gen to its knees, then and internal breaker or relay opens, and it stops trying to use the incoming AC. From what I've read in a couple of places, including an old thread here, Gen support(enabling it and setting the charge ceiling to something like 25 amps) may resolve this issue. Am I on the right track? The generator is a 6500w, 8500w surge.
  • mcgivormcgivor Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes limit the charge current to prevent overloading the generator, aim for about 4500 W, or ~75A.charging, and adjust from there. 
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭
    You have to set the Generator power and the Generator Ckt Bkr amps.   Both settings interact and have some internal margin.

    Look for Chris Olson's posts regarding XW generator settings
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭✭
    I am curious, what did they do to get you a new inverter at what cost to you please?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Update: All panels are delivering voltage, and battery bank cycling seems to be in a decent place. Cloudless days will yield a couple hours of float charge. The generator issue was partially solved; the 10kw gen would deliver 80 amps or so, in addition to running the loads via pass through, but the Gen support setting required to do this was 25 amps, I'm confused by this, and Chris video in his post is unavailable. As far as the cost of the new inverter, I believe my father said $3100 delivered it to the door 5 days from order. Thank you all for your help and suggestions, I'm sure I'll be back as we bring combox and AGS online.
  • WaterWheelWaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a good price for the XW6848.     I believe I paid $3070 2 years ago.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, and conext battery monitor

    18 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v 790 amp/hr Crown battery bank

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭
    here's my notes from Chris's communication for my 2.5Kw genset

    Battery Bank Capacity 1000 A (1,000A makes for easy, direct conversion to charging amps,
    mistakes are limited to AC2 & Generator Support amps limits)
    Maximum Charge Rate 5-35 A

    AC2 Breaker Size 19.5 A (each leg/breaker is only @ 120V so both will add, this setting = a limit of 4680w, internally derated to 3744w)

    Generator Support Enable Enabled
    Generator Support amps 13.1 A (each breaker is only @ 120V so both will add, this setting = a limit internally derated to 2515w)
    Generator Support PLUS Enabled



    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭✭
    Still curious about how Schneider dealt with the old damaged  "new" unit. One of their engineers asked me to check on this.
    I am guessing they scrapped it and made you buy another?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • AimsmallAimsmall Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    I wull have to do some more fidgeting with the generator issue, and thank you Mike for taking the time to dig up those notes. As far as the damaged unit, Schneider was pretty much useless to us in dealing with repair. Their tech support folks gave me the name of the closed auth service center, and when they didn't return any calls or emails, was when the decision was made to order the new inverter. I have an acquaintance who is an electronics tech, with some experience with inverters, so He's going to take a look at it to determine mode of failure. There's obviously no hope of any warranty being intact, so what is there to lose? If he can repair it, it will be shelved and used for an expansion of the system next summer. My mother wants a hot tub
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks I will pass it on. If you email me your support number it might help. They are not their best when dealing with people who are not dealers. With over 4 times the normal voltage they may not want the unit repaired as that damage is often latent and shows up later after the unit is working again.

    One of the problems with gen use is often the wiring is too small and too long. You probably should start with the AC input set to 30 amps and go from there. Gen Support really is not for the size you have.

    Hot tubs are great. We run an on demand propane heater for night and water panel for daylight. 240 for all the jets and lights.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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