Upgrading with Aquion batteries?

ChristineChristine Registered Users Posts: 4
I was just looking at https://www.solar-electric.com/aquion-energy-aspen-24s-ahi-battery.html

Aquion Energy Aspen 24S-83 Aqueous Hybrid Ion 24 Volt Deep Cycle Battery  $1,194.50

I've been off grid with a very minimal system, a few panels, wind gen and 2 small battery banks.

Thinking about replacing 4 6V Surrette S-530 -- went to http://rollsbattery.com for specs, but couldn't find it.  Purchased in 2007, seem to be ok and they'd replace some old batteries that are going bad on me.

How does this Aquion compare to the four Surrettes I have?

Since I currently have a 12 v system, I realize that I need a new inverter.   My C-40 charge controller can be switched to 24 v (I think).  

So what else do I need to buy?  I'd put the Aquion in my garage so it won't freeze, close to where my batteries are now outside and where the solar comes in.  

In the pdf for "required accessories" are some connectors and it also lists the Aquion BMS-200 Battery Monitoring System.  Is that REQUIRED?  That would definitely be a deal killer, very pricey.

Is there anything else I should know?  Is the C40 ok for a charge controller?  Is any inverter ok?   I'm currently using a cheapo Chinese 3kw inverter, I'm amazed it still works.

Is there an FAQ for people who upgrade existing systems?

Appreciate any help!

Also, was wondering if I were to buy it whether it buy the Aquion, could it be loaded for me? I'm near Kingman and could pick it up.

Comments

  • DConlyGuyDConlyGuy Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭
    edited September 2016 #2
    on the Aquion battery i would say no way for only 83 amp hrs . heck 2 golf cart battery's for 200 bucks will give ya 3 times as many amp hours
    600 watts of solar panels,Epever 30 mppt , 2 PWHR12500W4FR battery's in 24 volt setup
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭✭
    DConlyGuy said:
    on the Aquion battery i would say no way for only 83 amp hrs . heck 2 golf cart battery's for 200 bucks will give ya 3 times as many amp hours

    Actually it's a 24 volt so 4 golf cart batteries will give a little under 3 times as much, They are reported to last a very long time, but I think they are a bit on the pricey side for me as well. I like that they are nontoxic, Worry a bit about the lowest cost per Kwh NAWS is suggesting, when they expect 20 years from the Crown forklift batteries they sell.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    Christine  Anything can be shipped to your battery location if it is accessable by truck.
    If I were you I would replace with what you have for now if they have been good since 2007.
    I will back-up most anything Photwhit writes here.
    If you were really interested in Aquion, They are at Solar Power International in Vegas on the 12th thru 15 this month.
    They along with your charge controller, Xantrex/ Schneider Electric have a demo on Monday on using advanced Batteries in their equipment.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • TulumtamTulumtam Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭✭
    Hi Christine,
    I have installed two Aquion AHI battery banks recently, so I think I can answer some of your questions.  

    On sizing the battery bank, I would recommend 2 or 3 battery stacks, depending on how deeply you were discharging your Rolls batteries on a daily basis.  

    You do not need the battery monitoring system, though a charge controller that can log data would be helpful, particularly if you run into a problem and need to troubleshoot.  For the installation, you would need a small combiner box with a breaker for each battery.  

    You can use the Xantrex C-40, as it is easily adjustable from 12v to 24v by moving a small jumper.  The set absorb time on the C-40 is 1 hour, which is the absorb time recommended by Aquion for off-grid applications.  As I said before, it would be good to have some data logging capabilities, but that ups the price point of the controller significantly.

    You can use a cheap inverter, but you want to make sure that the low-voltage disconnect is not so low that your charge controller will shut down when the batteries are deeply cycled.  The AHI batteries can be discharged completely and recharged without a problem, but your charge controller may not turn on if the battery bank is less than 20-21v.  Obviously, cheap 24v inverters are not as common as cheap 12v inverters.

    From my discussions with Aquion, I understand that there are two ways to kill these batteries:  1.) Tilting them too much in transportation; and 2.) overcharging them.  It is easy to keep from overcharging with panels, but the wind turbine might add in an unpredictable factor.  That said, there is a recommended float voltage if you will be floating less than 4 hours per day and a lower float voltage if you are going to be floating for more than 4 hours per day (which is probably the case if you have a wind generator.  If you can adjust your wind generator voltage down to 26v, then you can probably get away with it.

    On transportation and delivery, you need to ensure that the battery stacks are not tilted excessively during loading and unloading.  Each set of battery stacks comes with an eye bolt that screws onto the bolt on top of the stack that is the only way the stacks should be lifted.  We have used a pole and rope through the eye bolt to move and lower the batteries from a truck, as well as a small tow-hitch crane to lower them from the truck.

    My clients and I are very happy with the batteries so far and have high hopes for a long life span!
     





  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi Christine,

    Basically,  the Surrette S-530 battery is 6 V with a 20-Hr Capacity of 400 Ah.   It has been replaced by the Surrette S-550.  Here is the 530 Data Sheet:
    http://www.dcbattery.com/rollssurrette_s530.pdf

    I have not used any of the Aquion batteries.   But it has been noted,  that the Aquion batteries have relatively poor surge current capability.  This means that under relatively heavy loads,  and for loads that high peak starting current needs,  that there will probably be a relatively high voltage sag.  This sagging under large/high peak loads may,  or may not cause issues.  One might expect that your lights might dim/flicker.

    FWIW.   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BlakeFleming85BlakeFleming85 Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭✭
    Just Got news today that Aquion Energy filed chapter 11.  @Christine, it may have nothing to do with your original question, but thought I'd post it in case it might affect your decision based upon future serviceability.  Cheers.

    http://blog.aquionenergy.com/aquion-energy-inc.-files-voluntary-petition-under-chapter-11-to-target-a-sale-of-assets?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=44822013&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--LY02Pxk9hneDu55RWhmAbe1kYpaHl3nXhkY2G4qA1ML3sG3XZZBeNOJdcTi41LIF72_IKLxgdYxGQ5h9KcdkQvz8cobG9Jd5aTOcCK0NN3o6VDHY&_hsmi=44822013
  • bbbuddybbbuddy Solar Expert Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    edited April 28 #8
    Well.  I had looked seriously at getting aquion batteries.  What held me back was their slow charge and discharge profiles.  Just wasn't going to work for me.  I need the surge current.
    I'm glad I went with the lifepo4 battery.   It's awesome how well it's working!
    Magnum4024PAE, 2 Midnite Classic 150s, 3100watts solar, 432ah lifepo4 battery.  Off grid since 2004.
  • ChristineChristine Registered Users Posts: 4
    Thanks so much for all your comments!  I've been a member so long, but mostly read and somehow my notifications preferences were not set for email notices of replies, just fixed that.  

    I had read that Aquion filed for Ch. 11 in March and I hoped that maybe they just needed new capital and someone would take over.   I've just done a bit of reading in other topics here and people seemed to like them. 

    Don't know what to do now ...  not sure how much longer I can wait.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭
    Christine said:
    Thanks so much for all your comments!  I've been a member so long, but mostly read and somehow my notifications preferences were not set for email notices of replies, just fixed that.  

    I had read that Aquion filed for Ch. 11 in March and I hoped that maybe they just needed new capital and someone would take over.   I've just done a bit of reading in other topics here and people seemed to like them. 

    Don't know what to do now ...  not sure how much longer I can wait.
    It's going to be a long wait.  They failed for several technical reasons, and the inherent cause was the batteries are not very good for consumer use.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • LumisolLumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    A move to aquion would not be an upgrade at all. Look to other types of batteries for an upgrade.
    AGM or Litium may work depending on needs and expectations.
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