Refrigerator power

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #62
    Re: Refrigerator power

    Nota bene: I would not have needed the $8,000 system just to run a refrigerator. It only draws about 1.6 kW/hrs per day. A smaller inverter would have saved considerable money, as would a simpler charge controller and less expensive panels. Still, the capital outlay to supply approx 2 kW/hrs per day is significant. But at some point the cost of supplying propane exceeds it over time.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #63
    Re: Refrigerator power
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Nota bene: I would not have needed the $8,000 system just to run a refrigerator. It only draws about 1.6 kW/hrs per day. A smaller inverter would have saved considerable money, as would a simpler charge controller and less expensive panels. Still, the capital outlay to supply approx 2 kW/hrs per day is significant. But at some point the cost of supplying propane exceeds it over time.

    As long as the dollar cost is all you are looking at in a small offgrid system. Other factors may shift you the other way. Also it is typical for most offgrid systems and their users knowledge to grow over time. It is very difficult to really say which one was best over time. Most of these systems do go electric eventually. I am on my 37th right now and many have told me that it really helped when they started out to not have the energy worries now that they know what is involved.

    One of my clients who has huge RE system uses a Crystal Cold in the garage for when he goes off on his Merchant Marine tours of 3 months. Peace of mind is always part of the cost.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #64
    Re: Refrigerator power

    Or the difficulties of hauling around heavy propane tanks when you're getting advanced in years.

    Yes indeed; you have to figure out what works best for you. :D
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #65
    Re: Refrigerator power
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Or the difficulties of hauling around heavy propane tanks when you're getting advanced in years.

    Yes indeed; you have to figure out what works best for you. :D

    None of the people I know are hauling propane tanks.... It comes in a big truck anytime you want it. Well... some of the people at elevation have to wait until the snow melts. These are some very remote places. I thought you guy's just drilled a hole and put a hose on it...
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #66
    Re: Refrigerator power

    Wouldn't ya know it? I got the only property in BC without a gas well! :p

    Can't talk anybody into driving their propane truck down that logging road either.

    It's all about what works for you.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #67
    Re: Refrigerator power

    No body I know has propane delivered either. We can't even get them to come to the lake shore, much less come across the lake! Even our second closest neighbour, on the mainland has to haul tanks.

    I've stepped many of ours down from 100# to 60# tanks as the 100#s are getting to be too much for me to get out of the boats. (or out of the sleigh behind the ski-do.

    Tony
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #68
    Re: Refrigerator power

    Wow it is the land of snow up there! Do you guy's have fire trucks? Maybe the snow never melts? Sorry had to...

    Okay blond joke,

    She calls the fire department and says "hurry there is a fire come quickly"
    How do we get there lady?
    "in your little red truck"

    By the way, propane trucks will go just about anywhere that is safe up here in the Sierra mountains if you have a big enough tank. They want to see 500 gallon and up tanks at a residence.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #69
    Re: Refrigerator power

    500 gallons would last us about 20 years. I probably won't live that long!
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #70
    Re: Refrigerator power
    By the way, propane trucks will go just about anywhere that is safe up here in the Sierra mountains if you have a big enough tank. They want to see 500 gallon and up tanks at a residence.
    Curious question, Do the propane company make you buy your own tank? Here in Pa. the propane co. usually furnish the tank unless they think you aren,t going to use much. I found that out the harf way. I was getting propane from a company that was way overpriced. Called them to come get thier tank and tryed to get propane from other dealers that had a much lower price. When they found out I was installing outside wood furnace they wouldn,t sell me propane unless I bought my own tank. I had to buy a tank from them and they sold me the propane about 12 cents a gallon cheaper. One thing good about having your own tank is you can call different dealers to get a better price, when you use the dealers tank you are locked into getting your fuel from him. When I was done with it I got my money back as they don,t depreciate much if you take good care of it. S:Dlarvic
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #71
    Re: Refrigerator power

    The only fire trucks we have are either Jet Rangers with a crew of MNR guys, or amphibious twin turbine powered water bomber. Scoops 1500 litres of water in 15 seconds all while skimming the lake at ~80 kts.

    I have some pictures of our last encounter, but they are not digital. A very awesome experience to watch. I have been in the bush working under these guys when they come with a drop. They mix dish soap in with the water so that the liquid will cling to the trees to slow the advance of the fire. Here is from a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaHNO1_8nk

    Other than that we are on our own. If we have a building fire, we keep pumps and hose sets ready and primed all summer. In the winter I get a bit lax, but I keep one handy.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #72
    Re: Refrigerator power

    Icarus. Did you see the Ice Pilots on the Canadian Discovery Channel Or was it your History channel last winter? I really like that show but it hasn,t come to US yet? They had a couple water bombers that they flew to Turkey. They are still using 40,s vintage DC-8 planes. Thier last show for the season said they were having a hard time getting aviation fuel for them as the refinerys really cut back on making that kind of fuel. Watched you tube. That looks like the same planes they sold to turkey. The airlines on Ice Pilots operates out of Yellowknife and fly north from there. solarvic
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #73
    Re: Refrigerator power

    I have see segments of the show.

    The difference between the water bombers that they sold to Turkey is those were piston powered. The newer version is turbine, so they have way more HP (2380 hp each!) and are a lot more reliable. The best part of the show was after they finally got the planes to Turkey and they were training the Turkish pilots, the first time they soloed, they gear up landed the damn thing on the asphalt!

    I actually know of some of the guys on the show as they were flying into some mining sites fairly near us.

    The Canadair Cl- 415 family of aircraft are truly a remarkable machine! I was wrong in my previous post,, it is not 1500 litres of water, but 1500 US gallons! that it can pick up in under a minute!

    Just pray that you don't rally need one! The MNR prioritizes response, both of ground crews and 415's based on location, danger to people, structures etc. The two times they have come to our lake they have come as a result of lightning strike caused fires threatening property. If it had been a busy season, it would have been left to burn, and we to our own good fortune.

    I have a very real fear this season might be one of the worst fire season yet. Our ice is nearly out, well over a month early, our lakes are lower than they have ever been, not just for the time of year, but in toto, there is no snow in the bush, where there should be a meter or more left, temps are in nearly 20C (~65F) and have been for the better part of a month. There are already open burn bans over vast amounts of Northwestern Ontario, this in very early April!

    Tony
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #74
    Re: Refrigerator power

    Icarus. I live in Pa and have had starchoice for over 10 years. I am worried about our part of the country. we didn,t set any cold records but set all kind of snow depth records and amount of days it stayed cold. Now we are setting high temperature records. we are getting 80 degree days and it is only suposed to go to 76 degree f tonight. We usually don,t see these kind of temp. till late may or early june. we had very bad tornados in 1985 clear up into Canada from here.
    S:Dlarvic
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #75
    Re: Refrigerator power
    solarvic wrote: »
    Curious question, Do the propane company make you buy your own tank? Here in Pa. the propane co. usually furnish the tank unless they think you aren,t going to use much. I found that out the harf way. I was getting propane from a company that was way overpriced. Called them to come get thier tank and tryed to get propane from other dealers that had a much lower price. When they found out I was installing outside wood furnace they wouldn,t sell me propane unless I bought my own tank. I had to buy a tank from them and they sold me the propane about 12 cents a gallon cheaper. One thing good about having your own tank is you can call different dealers to get a better price, when you use the dealers tank you are locked into getting your fuel from him. When I was done with it I got my money back as they don,t depreciate much if you take good care of it. S:Dlarvic

    Some do make you buy the tank, some make you do a safety inspection when you change companies, some don't care, sometimes there is not any logic and it is their business so you have to play the game even if you own the tank.:confused:

    Tony, we had a wild fire (Telegragh fire)2 years ago. When it went out of control, it burned 14,000 acres in 4 hours in a canyon driven fire wind. Somewhere in my files I have a shot of a DC-10 100 feet off our rooftop. He was following a spotter plane to drop retardent. Now that is big and loud!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_6PKOg1f8o
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #76
    Re: Refrigerator power

    In Canada, CSA standards require portable tanks to be inspected every 10 years, and have their valves replace every 15 if memory serves. I don't know what the inspection standards are for fixed tanks.

    I have also found in some places, brand X won't fill a tank that is not owned by brand X.

    Tony
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #77
    Re: Refrigerator power
    icarus wrote: »
    The only fire trucks we have are either Jet Rangers with a crew of MNR guys, or amphibious twin turbine powered water bomber. Scoops 1500 litres of water in 15 seconds all while skimming the lake at ~80 kts.

    I have some pictures of our last encounter, but they are not digital. A very awesome experience to watch. I have been in the bush working under these guys when they come with a drop. They mix dish soap in with the water so that the liquid will cling to the trees to slow the advance of the fire. Here is from a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaHNO1_8nk

    Other than that we are on our own. If we have a building fire, we keep pumps and hose sets ready and primed all summer. In the winter I get a bit lax, but I keep one handy.

    You probably won't believe this but ... there is already a "fire ban" on in parts of BC this year! :cry:
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #78
    Re: Refrigerator power

    I absolutely believe it.

    There are fire bans here from the Manitoba border to way down in southern ON.
    Our ice is 90% out today. Our neighbour is in the boat, we will have to wait another day, but that makes a new record early ice out. Open water on April 6th! The previous record was 2005, April 19th. Our average ice out is May 10th! I was walking on the ice a week ago today, (actually on a ATV!) and it measured 21" thick at that point,,, now open water, unbelievable!

    We are expecting temps near 20C for the rest of the week, and the 10 day forecast is way warmer than normal, with no rain or snow of consequence on the horizon! Our normal temps for this week is +5C low of -8C.

    Tony
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