Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

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System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Solar Product Reviews & Opinions #1
Hi there,

Just wanting an opinion on a quote we received from a solar contractor. It is for a 6.48-kw grid-tied pole-mounted system. They quoted us 36 180-watt Schuco panels and an SMA "Sunny Boy 6000" inverter for around $30,000.

I guess I have two questions: First of all, are these good products/brand names, i.e., how do they compare to others on the market? And secondly, does the quoted price seem fair/reasonable?

Opinions/input would be much appreciated... thanks!
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  • DaveH9
    DaveH9 Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭
    #2
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    I really like the SMA inverters, can't go wrong there. I find them to be very reliable. Schuco is a German company, they are big in Europe and expanding in the US. I am not sure who actually makes their panels for them, I don't believe that manufacture them. but if they carry a 25 yr power output warranty it really does not matter, as Schuco should be around to honor it.

    What is the total cost of the system installed before rebates and tax credits?
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    as bb would say, they must be alright if they're on california's pv listings and they are on the list. i couldn't tell you much about the company or the pvs. maybe some of our overseas members could chime in with something on them?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #4
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    I was being a bit sarcastic when I said if they are on the California list that they must be OK. (many government lists, and even UL/etc. do not guarantee the product will work find and last a long time--it just means, in UL/NRTL's case--the device will probably not kill you).

    Certainly, somebody went to the time, effort, and money to get them listed--so it is an indication that they plan on being around (rather than a dump and run container load).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    believe it or not i know you were being sarcastic, but i guess i should have let everyone here know that.;) i couldn't tell you how much it means, but i'm sure it's harder for other certifications like ul and such. is that a requirement for california's list?
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    I have had nothing but problems since my SMA Inverter was hit by lightening. It was covered under a 5 year warranty. Instead of replacing it with a new inverter they replaced it with refurbished inverter with a 1 year warrenty. Less than a year later it it quit working, as my Solar technician told me " it went Bad" and once again will only replace it with a refurbished on and charge me for it. I want a new one and they ar unwilling to even think about it. Think twice before you purchase a Sunny Boy inverter and read the warranty well. They are a German Based Company with offices in CA and they are not very open to upgrades in your equipment even if you offer financial incentives.
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    A somewhat outdated quote for a 7.5kw system is here http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/wind-sun/7kw-gridtie.pdf. Panel prices have dropped some since that quote was done.

    So whether that is a good price depends on if it includes installation or not.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #8
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    Hi Sophie, I can shed plenty of light on Schuco. Multi billion dollar German company (privately held) with 1.5 billion in sales. Big into energy conservation as well as solar.
    Out of 1960 like renewable businesses, no one is stronger financially as per Dunn and Bradstreet. Only 4 others are as financially strong as Schuco.
    They manufacturer most of their solar panels, but not the 180 watt. I believe you are looking at their spu-4. They are manufactured by Mitsubishi (Schuco specifications) with multiple upgrades. A very nice panel. They will be out next month with a Black on Black poly panel. I believe I read it will be 14.1% panel efficiency. It will be priced slightly higher than the 180 watts. 0-5% tolerance rating!!! Manufacturered by Schuco. BE AWARE THAT THE 180 W PANEL HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED. It is being discounted and sold until inventory is exhausted.
    The nice thing about Schuco is they make the alluminum rails, t fasteners, mechanical roof and ground mount fasteners, and are the largest purchaser of SMA inverters in the World! SMA allows them to brand their product Schuco in Europe and I have see the first SMA/Schuco inverters in California. SMA warranties apply.
    They also certify their contractors. This creates "accountability" concerning warranties. Something not enjoyed with other manufacturers.Check out their 210 Watt SMAU-1 mono crystalline. 14.9% panel efficiency! They also have a 12 yr 90-% production warranty. In a hot climate zone it may be the better value over the 180 watt poly's.
    As for the SMA inverters, I can tell you I have seen and had direct experience with fronius, xantrax, and SMA. SMA weights twice as much as the others, and has fewer working parts. For an additional $500-$750 you can upgrade warranties to 15 years and up to 20 years for $1000, at least in California. I will not consider the previous mentioned inverters but am currently checking into Outback.
    Last but not least, consider upgrading to a SB 7000US inverter. You may be getting close to maxing out the SB6000 US. Inverters work best and last longer if they are oversized a little. It also gives you room to add panels later on without having to purchase a new inverter. It is only $250 extra. They just came out with a SB8000US. $100 more than a SB7000.
    Hope this helps.
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  • newenergy
    newenergy Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    I've install a lot of SMA inverters and have never had a problem with them. None have been hit by lightning though.

    I haven't worked with Schuco or Mitsubishi, but I've seen them in person and they seem to be well manufactured and they both have good reputations.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    Schuco is old German standard - meaning on the expensive side but well done.

    My solar thermal system is Schuco and İ am happy with it.

    İn my last house we used Schuco windows and the hardware was first class. This time we used a different supplier for windows and that was a mistake.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #11
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    We have been quoted $30K here in Raleigh North Carolina for a schuco system. I have checked everything out and the system looks to be of the highest quality. The basic details are:

    28x180watt. Schuco MPE 180 MS05. (5.04 kW )
    KACO 5002 xi Inverter.

    with installation & permitts etc...

    $30k

    Does that sounds good to ya'll?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #12
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    Check if the price is before or after rebates...

    I am not in the solar biz at all--but $7 per watt solar Grid Tied Installed is around the best price I have seen here... $10 per Watt is towards the high end (both, before rebates/tax credits).

    Given the variability between cost of business between regions and details regarding any issues with your install--It is probably difficult to give any more than round numbers here.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?

    In the Dallas area the residential market price is currently sitting at about $6/W (before rebates and incentives). Plenty of competition.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?
    crasorus wrote: »
    We have been quoted $30K here in Raleigh North Carolina for a schuco system. I have checked everything out and the system looks to be of the highest quality. The basic details are:

    28x180watt. Schuco MPE 180 MS05. (5.04 kW )
    KACO 5002 xi Inverter.

    with installation & permitts etc...

    $30k

    Does that sounds good to ya'll?

    that sounds like about a typical price here in AZ, about $6-$6.25 a watt. Prices seem to be sliding a bit lately.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?
    crasorus wrote: »
    We have been quoted $30K here in Raleigh North Carolina for a schuco system. I have checked everything out and the system looks to be of the highest quality. The basic details are:

    28x180watt. Schuco MPE 180 MS05. (5.04 kW )
    KACO 5002 xi Inverter.

    with installation & permitts etc...

    $30k

    Does that sounds good to ya'll?
    Don,t know how much labor charges and other needed items cost and how you are mounting ect. I just bought pallet of 8 panels delivered for $4219.00. $2.93 watt delivered to my home. They will deliver the inverter for $2845.00. If they would sell you 3 1/2 pallets of 8 it would be $17615.00 delivered. Plus all the other items you will need I think that is probably reasonable. S:Dlarvic
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  • Braden
    Braden Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭
    #16
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?
    BB. wrote: »
    Check if the price is before or after rebates...

    I am not in the solar biz at all--but $7 per watt solar Grid Tied Installed is around the best price I have seen here... $10 per Watt is towards the high end (both, before rebates/tax credits).

    Given the variability between cost of business between regions and details regarding any issues with your install--It is probably difficult to give any more than round numbers here.

    -Bill

    In the mid-Atlantic, anything with a first digit greater than a $6 is overpriced for residential, unless you have a very unique system, or require battery backup.

    Of course on the commercial side its way below this.

    Also - SMA inverters are among the best. Not too convinced about the Schuco Panels though.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?
    Braden wrote: »
    In the mid-Atlantic, anything with a first digit greater than a $6 is overpriced for residential, unless you have a very unique system, or require battery backup.

    Of course on the commercial side its way below this.

    Also - SMA inverters are among the best. Not too convinced about the Schuco Panels though.
    So what problem do you have with the Shuco panels? These particular ones are made by Mitsubushi. I have some of both and you have to look at the label on back to distinguish which brand they are. So do you also have problems with mitsubushi panels also? S:Dlarvic
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  • Braden
    Braden Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭
    #18
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    Re: Schuco panels, SMA inverter... are these good products?
    solarvic wrote: »
    So what problem do you have with the Shuco panels? These particular ones are made by Mitsubushi. I have some of both and you have to look at the label on back to distinguish which brand they are. So do you also have problems with mitsubushi panels also? S:Dlarvic

    haha pretty much :D

    tbh I work for a commercial scale PPA developer. What I used to evaluate panel suitability for projects doesn't necessarily translate well to residential usage.

    For instance - we don't use certain panels because their higher efficiency isn't worth the extra cost when we're dealing with massive rooftops tens, or even hundreds, of thousands of square feet.

    I should clarify the 'not convinced' about Schuco statement. Its not that I think they're bad, its just that I haven't evaluated their products yet beyond glancing at the spec sheet. And really, all the spec sheet does is seperate the crap panels from the not crap panels. Schuco stands in the not crap category. Beyond that I only have their PTC ratings to go off of, which are lower than some other manufacturers in the industry.
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