Tankless water heating

HairfarmHairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
I hoping for a recommendation for a propane tankless water heater that can be used inside a cabin. Preferable one that doesn't use electricity for any controls, etc.

Also, anyone on these boards using a solar (roof-type) water collector with a propane hot water tank?

My goal is to piece together a hot water heating system uses propane in some fashion. I suppose I could just get a propane, tankless outdoor-type unit. But then I won't be able to have hot water inside the cabin for dishes, indoor shower etc. because of the gas emission.

I'm thinking indoor, cheap, and propane - $600-$800 range. Is this possible?

thanks!

Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    Tony - Icarus is the man for this question! :D

    My Bosch cost $1200 CDN originally, so you're in the right ball park in US$. Faults: it does not have thermostatic regulation: the water is heated to 'X' above incoming temp. Newer (better) units have the outlet temp thermostatically controlled like a tank-type heater. But mine is 'turbine' ignition - no standing pilot, no electric supply needed.

    I've never heard of their being separate indoor/outdoor propane units? Mine just has a vent stack - pretty simple install (other than the stupid metric pipe fittings - it came with adapters).

    Be advised these things need a 5 micron filter to keep them from clogging up.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,118 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    As of now, the only completely non electric demand water heater that I know of is the bosch. They make two versions at last check one with standing pilot, and one with a water activated ignitor. Personally, if I could find a Paloma PH6 or PH 12 I would buy one in a heart beat. I know the PH6 has gone out of production and I believe that the PH 12 has as well,,, damn shame as they are great units. If you can find a used one, there are lots of spares parts still available and will be for years. On the other hand I have never needed a spare.

    Most other units, including the new generation Palomas, Takagis, Rinnai and Bosch all make units that require a small bit of power for the control board and the vent fan. They also all vent through rather expensive stainless steel vent systems. All can be direct vented, drawing combustion air from outside. I personally like the Rinnai and the Takagi in an electronic model. I have had trouble with Bosches so I steer away, but others report good results with Bosches.

    I personally have built a small number of flat plate solar collectors, that circulate into a storage tank, and then feed a demand water heater. If you do a search in the water pumping section of this forum you can find a link. My satellite connection is very slow tonight so I will post it later.

    There are some other 'off brands' out there that I don't have any experience with. Another rather simple alternative is to use a small RV batch heater of ~5-10 gallons, just enough for 1 shower. Not very efficient, but it does work.

    As I suggest, keep an eye out for either a Paloma PH 6 on Ebay. (You'll have to out bid me though! I'm cornering the market. I've got 3 of them, two in use, always looking for another.

    Goo luck,

    Tony
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    I hoping for a recommendation for a propane tankless water heater that can be used inside a cabin. Preferable one that doesn't use electricity for any controls, etc.

    I'm thinking indoor, cheap, and propane - $600-$800 range. Is this possible?

    thanks!

    I would just modify a 40 or 50 gallon propane heater for solar domestic hot water.
    If you live in the southwest the pilot will be off 9 months of the year or more. I would really consider this if you have hard mineral water as the on-demands are having maintenance issues out here in the Sierra mountains with bad water. But if you can use rainwater or good water then consider on demand. You will need a tank also for solar so math that out.

    A tank propane heater is around $500 and solar heating would depend on location as well as issues with really cold weather but it could be done near $ 700 if you are handy.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • HairfarmHairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    Tony,
    I assume the Paloma PH6 needs no electricity?


    Cariboocoot,
    What is the model number of your Bosch?

    thanks!
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,118 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    PH 6 is a small standing pilot light unit, ~43,000 btu, ~1.5 gpm @50 degree f rise, .75 gpm at 100f. We pull lake water out from under the ice in the winter, so it comes in at ~34f and we have all the hot shower we like from it. The PH 12 is maybe 60k btu, and the PH 24 is over 150k btu.

    The PH6 is ideal for small cabins and is absolutely bullet proof, assuming you don't let it freeze.

    Tony
  • HairfarmHairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    Icarus:

    Assuming I can't find a PH 6 or 12, does Paloma make another unit that doesn't use electricity and is propane?

    Basically, I'd like a propane unit that doesn't need electricity that I can buy new.

    thanks,
  • SeanFSeanF Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Tankless water heating

    I've been using this model for over three years in my bus conversion. Through-wall mount vents directly outside. Very small 12vdc consumption for piezo ignition & muffin fan (I didn't want a model with a pilot flame.)
    Just a data point.

    HTH
    Sean
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    Cariboocoot,
    What is the model number of your Bosch?

    thanks!

    It's a WR 400-7.K.. (no kidding - all the little dots are part of the model #!)

    It's a few years old. No doubt they have better ones by now.
  • bgarrettbgarrett Solar Expert Posts: 48
    Re: Tankless water heating

    I am using a $200 Coleman
    They say its for campers.
    I run it off a propane bottle and a couple of C? cell batteries along with a Horrible Freight 12V pump and a deep cycle battery, charged with another Horrible Freight solar panel
  • PanamapatPanamapat Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    I picked up a small propane powered unit while in latin america where they are quite popular. It is not UL approved and may not pass insurance requirements It is configured as a temporary summer only heater to warm the 40-50 degree cabin water for shower only and it works quite well. I paid $190 and runs of 5 gal propane tank and is remarkably frugal on propane use. It uses D size batteries to run the automatic ignitor system and emits very very little CO2 gases. Dimensions are 25x16x6 deep and its removed each winter when I drain the house plumbing.

    I have not checked to see who might distribute these heaters locally, but I'm quite happy with it for a remote seasonal cabin.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    Panama pat, do you have a brand?

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • PanamapatPanamapat Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    The unit I purchased in Panama (Central America) had a brand name of Powertek, and is a 9 liter per minute unit. I think its made by a Chinese or Indian manufacturer and is very similar to the following unit on Ebay:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10L-GAS-TANKLESS-INSTANT-WATER-HEATER-PROPANE-LPG_W0QQitemZ110441860237QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b6d90c8d

    In looking thru ebay, you can see prices all over the map for similar units, yet all seem to be not much different on the surface.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    try to refrain from using the ebay links as later on down the road when somebody goes to look at this comparable product the listing could vanish. we are also allowed to delete such links after 30 days.
  • PanamapatPanamapat Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating
    niel wrote: »
    try to refrain from using the ebay links as later on down the road when somebody goes to look at this comparable product the listing could vanish. we are also allowed to delete such links after 30 days.

    no problem Niel. Unfortunately, I could not find any other non-ebay link that had a similar water heater to illustrate what I had found. If I find another link I'll edit my post to replace the ebay link.

    Pat
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    here is one, it sadly leads back to Fleabay..

    http://www.tankless.heaters-reviews.com/propane-tankless-water-heater-videos.html

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • PanamapatPanamapat Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating
    westbranch wrote: »

    Good link - it lead me to this link

    http://www.eztankless.com/

    Very similar to the one I'm using at the cabin... except the one we have is a 9 liter per minute unit.

    or these units:

    http://stores.gonetankless.com/-strse-Propane-Gas/Categories.bok

    Pat
  • quid_nonquid_non Solar Expert Posts: 48
    Re: Tankless water heating

    Anyone got experience with the eazytankless outdoor 101 unit? Says it will work with 2 "d" batts an low water pressure. Looks like a good deal on thier website...
    Thanks
  • HairfarmHairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    This is a unit that I'm interested that needs no outside electricity:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10L-GAS-TANKLESS-INSTANT-WATER-HEATER-PROPANE-LPG_W0QQitemZ110444416173QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7000cad

    The seller has a good feedback rating too. I've emailed 7 previous ebay buyers of this same unit (accessed by viewing the feedback page of the seller) and they've all replied that they have had great succes with this cheaper unit. Too good to be true? I'll soon find out. It's worth noting that the PDF manual for this product is a comedy of Chinese-to-English translation errors. Really pathetic.



    * Sorry for the ebay link moderator, but I couldn't seem to find it anywhere else online.

    Hairfarm
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,118 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    Personally I wouldn't take the chance on it, but let us know how it works out. Somewhat more importantly I will be curious to see how it works 5 years out.

    T
  • PanamapatPanamapat Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    This is a unit that I'm interested that needs no outside electricity:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10L-GAS-TANKLESS-INSTANT-WATER-HEATER-PROPANE-LPG_W0QQitemZ110444416173QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7000cad

    The seller has a good feedback rating too. I've emailed 7 previous ebay buyers of this same unit (accessed by viewing the feedback page of the seller) and they've all replied that they have had great succes with this cheaper unit. Too good to be true? I'll soon find out. It's worth noting that the PDF manual for this product is a comedy of Chinese-to-English translation errors. Really pathetic.



    * Sorry for the ebay link moderator, but I couldn't seem to find it anywhere else online.

    Hairfarm

    This is very similar to the unit I purchased. I've used it a couple of summers (part time weekend use) for our mountain cabin, having gone thru one 5-gallon propane tank with no issue. Simple and quite effective with no electrical hookup and inexpensive to boot.

    Some concerns are: 1) the the lack of UL safety ratings (for whatever that is worth) and 2) parts and repairs availability.
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    Re: Tankless water heating

    The Fagor brand is very popular in Norway where I live. I have the 6 litres/minute my self but find it a bit small for my use. Mine has a pilot flame that you have to ignite manually (ignition is powered by a battery) but they have versions without pilot flame as well. Complete catalogue here:
    http://www.fagor.com/mun/pub/ingl/productos/catalogos/gas_water_heaters.pdf
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