Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
Hi there i have a whisper 100 and a 200 i see my whisper 200 moving side ways if it is seeking the wind.

It is in every direction every wind speed and on the meter you see the current going up and down.

I think the tail blade is to small. the tower is on a hill top high above the olive trees .

What is your experiences white the whisper 200 tail blade.

thanks and greetings from Greece8)

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    although i do not have one of those, i can generally say that it will do this for any hawt to one degree or another. you might try an extension to the tail to make it respond a bit faster, but it will still do the same thing initially. you may also opt for a sturdier mast as it is the mast that bends and not the turbine.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,870 admin
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    There is an old thread here with this post from Sept. 2006:
    The H-40/Whisper 100 peforms better in turbulence than does the Whisper 200. That said, the 200 is a more powerful machine. It is capable of some serious power. SWWP trimmed down the rotor diameter from 10--9 ft. The longer rotors simply overpowered the alternator. Quite frankly, I'd like to test a 200 with the old H-80 blades--you'd have the upgraded internals-and the swept area I'm looking for.

    How high is your 200 on the tower? Perhaps, it is just turbulence.

    A 5 meter tower is pretty low, a 10-20 meter tower is beginning to get in the clean air (just guessing).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    I have a 27 meter tower, around 21 meters above surroundings.
    The tower is my design and is a part tilt down the turning point is 10 meters high.
    Very strong and extra supported by four steel cables, this because on my site i have seen seen winds from 120 km/h and ones 160 km/h. i can take down the tower whit in 30 seconds even under strong wind.

    the moving around is by every wind direction and by every wind speed just before charging it is slow and by high wind speed it is fast.

    My whisper 100 is not doing this but the tail is the same. i think that a double sweep area needs a bigger tail.

    I am aware that the 200 will never produce 1000W the high that i have seen is 824 Watt.

    i am just wondering if anybody has update the tail from a whisper 200.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    Peterako: There is a key sentence in your last reply--about never going above 824 watts. 200's, for all of their flaws, can make 1200+ watts or more--briefly. So, I'm thinking wiring--and what your controller is "seeing". So, we'd need to get into your wire run and wire size. Here's another thought; Let's say your battery bank is 24V and your 200 is wired for 48V. You'd hit 24 volts at a pretty low wind speed. The batteries would act like a giant capacitor and hold the machine down--for a while anyway (depending upon battery size--of course)...but, as wind speeds rise, the controller would want to dump--which would send turbine output to the resistive bank--and this would constantly "brake" the rotors...and, as soon as the turbine re-orients back into the wind-it would bounce back out...sideways of course.

    Turbulence could also be the problem--as Bill noted. Seems like you've got that covered-with your tower height. We presume your tower is plumb.

    Personally, I think a longer, heavier tail would benefit. But, If I know that, you can bet SWWP knows that. Let's face it, these machines were designed for light to medium wind sites. With their high tip speed ratio, I think its hard for the turbine to stay true in the straightest of winds.

    Consider the Bergey next time.
  • kenputerkenputer Solar Expert Posts: 27
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    Do not change the tail,it is desinged to FURL out of the wind to protect its self and that is what you are seeing.
    Ken
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    Thanks for the reply.

    Its not because it is going to furl it is complete incl. tail "seeking" and if furled it is still doing it. i see at the lcd panel the current going up and down.

    i know the tower is high enough and it is wired 48 V for 48 V battery wire size is 4 times 4 MM 30 meter long also good. i want to make my tower this spring higher. but not before i solved the problem.

    p.s. the whisper is not a low wind generator, it needs to spin fast to start charging.

    the LCD panel is not at my home so when i say that i do not have seen more then 900 Watt. that is because most of the time that type of wind is on my site at night for a hour or less. it survival is perfect after three storms in two months that i have seen coming down a wind generator ( big around 15 KW ) on the hill next to me.

    i am thinking that the tail is to small because i have also a whisper 100 and it is the same tail but the 200 has near double the sweep area.:confused:

    Greetings from Greece
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,870 admin
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    One other issue that can cause "hunting" while "looking for wind"... If the turbine mount is not completely square (90 degrees vertical).

    If the mount is bent/not vertical, the turbine may turn off-wind (settle in the low point of the arc). I read that at least one person saw a "bending" effect on a mono-pole tower just from the sun heating one side of the tower--causing the turbine to hunt off-wind to the "short side" of the tower.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    it depends on some other factors as well you have double the swept area and you say the tail is the same? is it longer from the center of the tower to the end of the tail vain? is the rotor offset from the center less? if everything is truly the same then yess the tail is to small by my logic?
    i run a 10 ft machine that is home built and i see the same thing and mine is actually turned about 10 degrees out of the wind? we have the New classic controller on mine so we are trying to push it a little harder i think i am going to make a lot bigger tail for mine keep her in the wind and stable. you can watch the ampmeter go up and down like a see saw in lower winds
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    let us know if you make the tail bigger and what results you get.
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    Just a little info on my 10 footer when it is running threw the classic today in 25mph winds it does turn out of the wind about 10-15 degrees but it isnt hunting so i think a bigger tale will keep her in the wind. we are getting 2500 watts easy today out of this poor 1000 watt turbine the classic sure does bring them alive
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    too bad we can't see a side by side for the classic vs standard with identical wind machines going under the same circumstances. maybe sandia will volunteer to test, not holding my breath? many will see your post as hype until more solid proof is shown because you are citing an extremely large result. i have great confidence that you are getting more and that the controller is going to do well after all bugs have been ironed out, but what it is we will see comparatively under various conditions is what people will be interested in.
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    Niel have no fear there is a test sight scheduled to do 2 identical turbines one direct to the battery and one threw the Classic. Just like i am doing with the sun here. i will say it is not witch craft the deal with the Hugh piggot design is that the turbine is built to start at say 6mph and make battery voltage. so when the windspeed increases the batterys hold the rpms and voltage down to battery voltage.

    What we are doing with the Classic is allowing the voltage and rpms to rise thus more power my blades are designed for a constant TSR and by allowing the rpms to rise with wind speed we can run them at that TSR.

    But again have no fear Robin and boB realize that people arent just going to believe us for what we say people will get proof soon
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    as i said i have no doubt you have gotten a gain and i never said witchcraft, but that people may not believe it because of the cited large jump you stated. 'a 1000w wind turbine outputting 2500w.'
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    i agree people will want proof as they do with any new product. and it is close there will be some beta sights that will be logging data for everyone to see soon.
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    Everything new starts with sceptics , witchcraft , magic and mystery, thats why being on a forum with members closely associated with the products in production, and in beta testing and in development makes for a great forum, looking forward to stage 2 beta testing of Midnights Classic 8)
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    I will update the tail to see the results, but i need to wait until the is "taking a rest" 5 to 8 Beaufort.

    And if the are looking for a beta tester i am very willing even to pay to have a more stream lined system.

    Greetings from Greece
  • tmcmurrantmcmurran Registered Users Posts: 21
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind
    peterako wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply.

    Its not because it is going to furl it is complete incl. tail "seeking" and if furled it is still doing it. i see at the lcd panel the current going up and down.

    i know the tower is high enough and it is wired 48 V for 48 V battery wire size is 4 times 4 MM 30 meter long also good. i want to make my tower this spring higher. but not before i solved the problem.

    p.s. the whisper is not a low wind generator, it needs to spin fast to start charging.

    the LCD panel is not at my home so when i say that i do not have seen more then 900 Watt. that is because most of the time that type of wind is on my site at night for a hour or less. it survival is perfect after three storms in two months that i have seen coming down a wind generator ( big around 15 KW ) on the hill next to me.

    i am thinking that the tail is to small because i have also a whisper 100 and it is the same tail but the 200 has near double the sweep area.:confused:

    Greetings from Greece

    From my understanding, and I might not be correct. The 100 and the 200 are one and the same. The only difference is the extension on the blades to increase the area. Everything else seems to be the same from unit to unit. The extra stress created from the extensions might lead to failure a little quicker in high winds. But in lower wind conditions the extensions would help. A bit of a toss up on it though.

    You would think that an increase in tail size should have been in order due to the extension to the blade. Can not have one without the other and still maintain the proper balance.
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind

    I updated the tail and i have a near steady result.

    p.s. the 100 and 200 are not the same there is more magnet and copper.

    The fixing from the blades for the 100 is far more stable. for the 200 there are 2 screws a blade one is holding the plastic nose cap so you can not use force on them then there is only one screw a blade to hold the force.:confused:

    Greetings from Greece
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Whisper 200 oscilating in the wind
    nigtomdaw wrote: »
    Everything new starts with sceptics , witchcraft , magic and mystery

    Clarke's Third Law

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws
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