Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

warren · January 2009

I would like input from users or "Electrically Educated" people regarding these 2 product lines. The use would be in an RV environment. I realize both are older designs & there are new & improved versions on the market, unfortunately with the associated higher prices. Many of these units are becoming available at very good prices and can be used, refurbished or "new old stock".

It would appear the Prosine 2.5 & the Xantrex SW2512 are the best to compare for my application. From the specs I would lean toward the SW, more robust & more usable features if in the same condition & price range. Also from my reading the SW can "ADD" battery power to the generator to make up a higher total AC output than available from the genny & then go back automatically to battery charging when the "load" decreases. True?

I would like to have some input regarding:
1) design strengths & weaknesses
2) repairability if problems
3) Ruggedness & user reported complaints
4) general preference between the 2

Much Appreciated

Brock · January 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

I have had both. The Prosine is physically smaller and maybe 1/4 the weight? The SW can add power to the genset as it is passing power and us far more flexible, you can tell it you only want to pull X amps from a genset and it regulates charging and pass through current based on your settings.

If it were me in an RV setting I would go with the Prosine for size and weight reasons, if you really like to "tinker" or mess with setting the SW would be the way to go, the SW can do grid tie and a second generator input as well.

Solar Guppy · January 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

SW can only do gridtie with the external GTI module, which is no longer available

The SW is also heavy, 150+ pounds and good luck ever trying to get it fixed, a few have reported it impossible to find a way to get broken units serviced. Xantrex has other true sine wave products specifically for the RV/Marine market

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/40/p/1/pt/8/product.asp ( street price is about $1300 US )

Bigger unit

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/176/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

warren · January 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Darn...that's 2 votes against the SW based on weight (not a concern) and repair problems. My major thought on repairs & electronics...they don't usually wear out (many electronic items work very well even though they may be "obsolete"), but they can be misused & faults are usually caused by the operator doing something they shouldn't...I would have thought something like the SW would be pretty much bullet proof in normal use ... but then I've been wrong before.

I am aware of the "RS" and other equipment but the pricing is roughly 2X what I can find Prosine 2.5 (don't think the 2.0 is nearly as robust) and SW2512 in good or refurbished shape...some with warranty ($700 - $900). An alternative would be to just purchase a new Samlex or Exeltech inverter (~ $500) but they are smaller with no transfer switch or charger and use a stand alone charger, which I already have. Cost is definitely an item for non full time usage.

As a related item...is it feasible to use a step down transformer (properly sized) to convert 230v, 50 hz signal to use on 120V, 60hz equipment? I suspect the voltage is tolerable but what of the frequency? Would it only affect "clocks, microwave timers.." or all motor equipment also?

Once Again thanks for any input or thoughts.

Ecnerwal · January 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Any induction motor will run slower on 50 hz. Universal motors won't care. IIRC it's OK to run 50hz motors on 60 (they just run faster) but 60 on 50 can overheat. It's either that they are not made with as much metal in the pole pieces, or it may just be the slower than designed fan speed for cooling, or more likely a bit of both. The aviation types like 400hz because it makes motors and transformers smaller and lighter, so it would be the same effect to a lesser extent at 50 .vs. 60 hz.

So....don't buy that cheap offshore inverter or generator unless you want to go track down a bunch of offshore appliances to go with it.

BB. · January 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Yea, try to avoid End Of Life products... The manufacturers, many times, cannot get the parts anymore either.

It is one thing if it is a hobby and have time to play around trying to fix it--something else if it is the main power for you home or cabin.

Here is a good page on the 220v 50hz vs 120 60hz (lives on a island in the Caribbean and has to deal with the issue a lot). Short answer, it depends on the appliance design.

-Bill

Robin Gudgel · January 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

The Prosine is a non repairable consumer inverter not designed for hard use. Even Xantrex doesn't repair them. They are a disposable inverter. The SW2512 on the otherhand is designed to run 24 hours a day 7 days a week and should give 20 years of life. Corrosion is the thing that kills them. There are numerous service centers that can still repair them. The main thing that fails are the fets (Harris 70N10 30 volt .010 ohm T)-220) and the fet drivers (HP 3120 now agilent) Both of those parts are available. Better fets are now available too so if you ever have a problem, you may just get back a better inverter. The repair cost isn't cheap though. I would shy away from the Prosine.
There are lots of other new inverters that are good too. OB, Magnum, Samlex.
You cannot take a 230VAC 50Hz unit and use it on 60 Hz very well. The computer code was designed for 50Hz. The battery charger will not work on inverters such as the SW. I don't know about the Prosine.

trkarl · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Solar Guppy wrote: »

SW can only do gridtie with the external GTI module, which is no longer available

The SW can do grid tie alone. The SW Plus version is the one that needs the GTI module.

Tim K

BB. · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

I am not sure that an SW can legally do Grid Tie on a new install (I thought that the SW did require a GTI Module to do grid tied installation--selling back power--vs just doing fail over protection)...

The NEC requirements changed a few years ago (to require a neutral connection on split phase 240 VAC US systems--to monitor neutral voltage?) and I would be 99% sure that the SW was almost (if not completely) out of production by the time the new requirements were introduced.

Just a guess though. I certainly do not know much about the details of the equipment.

-Bill

Solar Guppy · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

trkarl wrote: »

The SW can do grid tie alone. The SW Plus version is the one that needs the GTI module.

Tim K

With old firmware ( pre 2002 ), you can make a SW sell, but its not legal. Anything newer requires the GTI, which is not available for purchase. The SW's are over 5 year out of production and according to people who have actually tried to get them repaired, some critical parts are not available and its very expensive

The WX line is what should be considered, its head-and-shoulders above anything the SW could do

trkarl · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

If you are curious about how it works go to xantrex.com and under support find the sw series inverter/chargers. Open up the user manual to page 83. Basically the ac hot in and neutral in work in reverse when sell mode is configured to sell.

Now is it legal and does it conform to NEC codes? Probably not. But it does work. I have an SW4048 and it does work.;)

Tim K

trkarl · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Solar Guppy,

I'm curious as to how the wave form is in the XW series is compared to the SW. I know the SW is actually a stepped wave. I would really like to get a XW6048 but I have been holding off since it is relatively new to see if there are any bugs. Do you have any personal experience using one?

Tim K

Brock · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

I upgraded from stacked SW2512's to a XW6048 and can't say enough good things about this inverter. It is smaller than the stacked SW's and puts out plenty of power. The menu setup is very similar, almost easier I think, still designed by/for engineers rather than end users. I really like the split 240vac in one box.

Solar Guppy · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

The XW pure sinewave and yes I have one.

As for bugs, everything ever built or shipped has had or will have them, what matters is the firmware is field upgradable, but one needs the Xantrex USB->Can adapter. ( Can be bought or rented from Xantrex )

Xantrex has a configuration tool that can save, load all setting, log and report on every single device that is on the Xanbus, very handy for system monitoring or debugging

There is nothing else on the market that comes even close to the features the XW system has, its a NOT cheap inverter ( or the rest of the system parts ) but you get what you pay for.

Mangas · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

I also would like to know if the XW waveform is smoother than my stacked SWs'.

The engineers suggested the newer XWs' probably would have averted the furnace cycling problem I had.

Solar Guppy · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Mangas wrote: »

I also would like to know if the XW waveform is smoother than my stacked SWs'.

The engineers suggested the newer XWs' probably would have averted the furnace cycling problem I had.

the XW is a TRUE SINE WAVE, pure as it gets

Mangas · February 2009

Re: Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Unfortunately, the XWs' (with the best wave) weren't available in 06' when I bought the inverters.

However, Xantrex was very helpful in helping us sort it out.

Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"

Comments

Categories

Xantrex &quot;SW&quot; series vs &quot;Prosine&quot;

Comments

Categories

Xantrex "SW" series vs "Prosine"