New well in progress newbie questions

SystemSystem Posts: 2,511 admin
Hello to all! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I and drilling a new well depth 35-50 feet for lawn/garden watering that will eventually be a " automatic sprinkler system" . I was going to go with 50 amp grid electric with a 240v submersible pump but I live in a location with huge amounts of summer sun (Wyoming), and I had a thought of using solar. Luckily this is before I arrange for the electical work to be done. Any thought you have to share would be appiciated. Water quanity and quality will not be a problem just need design ideas for solar.:cool:

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,038 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    From what I have read, I think the Grundfos SQ pumps look very nice... Good quality and the same pump can run on either reasonably high voltage DC or AC. So, you can setup a pure solar panel pump, and have Battery or AC backup at the toss of a switch.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    Just wondering - - -
    You're DRILLING a new well, and you know before hand that you will strike water at 35, to 50 feet?
    Wish it were that way here.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    Yes the wells are shallow and good water. I live within 100 mile of the head water of the three largest river systems Mississippi, Snake, Colombia. at the base of the wind river range. but at the same time you can travel 12 miles as drill 1500 feet and end up dry. Thank you for the input on pumps. Anyone have more ideas?
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    wayne,
    you'd really be jealous then of my place. i can hit water 1-2 feet below the surface and that equates to roughly a foot or 2 below my basement floor. a plummer i had here was amazed that he estimated the rate at about 3-4 gallons per minute after several days of good rains. i was thinking of tapping it for free ac excepting the power, piping, and pump to push it through the house and maybe a few small fans. problem area would be what to do about condensation?
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    If all you are doing is irrigating lawn and garden, consider the shureflo submersible. Pump into a storage or pressure tank. My memory serves that it draws [email protected] and will run better on 24vdc. ~100 watts of panel will run it as long as the sun is out. Not real cheap, but I think it is way cheaper than the grunfos.
    I use the shureflo to pump out of a lake into a pressure tank to 60 psi. Works great.

    Icarus
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    niel wrote: »
    wayne,
    you'd really be jealous then of my place. i can hit water 1-2 feet below the surface and that equates to roughly a foot or 2 below my basement floor. a plummer i had here was amazed that he estimated the rate at about 3-4 gallons per minute after several days of good rains. i was thinking of tapping it for free ac excepting the power, piping, and pump to push it through the house and maybe a few small fans. problem area would be what to do about condensation?
    WOW!! You guys are so lucky with water it ain't funny!
    I'd hate you, except I was born without a jealous bone in my body, but sometimes I carry one around my neck. LOL
    Seriously I'm happy for you. Your water situation is awesome.
    Wayne
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    WOW!! You guys are so lucky with water it ain't funny!
    I'd hate you, except I was born without a jealous bone in my body, but sometimes I carry one around my neck. LOL
    Seriously I'm happy for you. Your water situation is awesome.
    Wayne
    you don't know how much damage it can do either as it has cost me around $10,000 in replacing my sewer and another grand for materials to rebuild, with my labor, 1/2 of my 5ft high retaining wall (about 20ft long). cracks have developed in it recently probably due to the water freezing during winter. i don't know what other damages were incurred that haven't reared their ugly head yet.
    i never tested the water for purity either as there are old mineshafts higher up in the hill that are most likely contaminating it and is likely the source of the water in the 1st place. i can't prove the source of it so there are repercussions in getting rid of it too due to ground water regulations.
    are you still envious?
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    Ahhhhh - - - - NO!

    Guess like stories, there's two sides to everything else as well.

    Wish you luck.

    Wayne
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    Wouldn't a good old fashion Wyoming Windmill do the job? It could pump constantly into a storage tank that gravity feeds irrigation water where needed.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    niel wrote: »
    wayne,
    you'd really be jealous then of my place. i can hit water 1-2 feet below the surface and that equates to roughly a foot or 2 below my basement floor. a plummer i had here was amazed that he estimated the rate at about 3-4 gallons per minute after several days of good rains. i was thinking of tapping it for free ac excepting the power, piping, and pump to push it through the house and maybe a few small fans. problem area would be what to do about condensation?

    Neil, have you considered using your ground water to supply a water source heat pump?
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    GregJ wrote: »
    Wouldn't a good old fashion Wyoming Windmill do the job? It could pump constantly into a storage tank that gravity feeds irrigation water where needed.

    Probably would work just fine,,,except it is big, expensive, full of wear points, big dangerous gears. blades etc, and there are few people who know how to install and work on them.

    Depending on the volume required solar would be much easier and cheaper with less to maintain.

    Icarus
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    GregJ wrote: »
    Neil, have you considered using your ground water to supply a water source heat pump?

    i could do that, but the water always seems to be low in temperature anyway (* see below) and i thought that just pumping the water would save some inefficiencies by doing away with that extra step of a heat pump. i view this as direct geothermal and rather than the piping going to the water the water goes to and through the piping.

    (*) measured just now on an infrared thermometer with current outside ambient air temp of 83 degrees f at 56 degrees f after about a week of around 90 degrees f.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    niel wrote: »
    i could do that, but the water always seems to be low in temperature anyway (* see below) and i thought that just pumping the water would save some inefficiencies by doing away with that extra step of a heat pump. i view this as direct geothermal and rather than the piping going to the water the water goes to and through the piping.

    (*) measured just now on an infrared thermometer with current outside ambient air temp of 83 degrees f at 56 degrees f after about a week of around 90 degrees f.

    That 56 is too high for practical cooling without the heat pump. But it's perfect for a Water source heat pump that would get you A/C and heat and very low utility bills. I guess I detoured this thread - I'll stop now.

    (And no I don't sell them. :D)
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    thanks for your opinion on that greg and i'll consider the heat pump one of my future options.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    1kzwoman
    I can tell you from experience that, though they're much slower, D.C. pumps at 24 to 36V are way more cost effective in solar applications than using inverted AC power to run a submersible pump. We're doing it anyway to irrigate crops but it,s insanely expensive. Though it belies the math a 1/2 HP 230V pump sucks 900watts of power the whole time it,s running. Where I live you can figure for 5 hours of sun a day. In short you'd need 500 watts of solar just to run it an hour a day not accounting for cloudy whether. We have some wells with Kyocera DC pumps in them with 130 watts of solar that put out plenty of water. If you need pressure though you might use a big ( or two ) pressure tank to store it up so you can run a sprinkler for a while before you have to stop and wait for the pumps to catch up as, like I said, they,re slow ( low volume ). These are the only DC pumps I've worked with and I don't get out much but that's what I know. If you want big city water pressure at all times you,ll save money just paying the elect. bill. Unless of course energy costs continue to skyrocket.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    I'm in the same boat here...not a water joke = ; > ) , just a long day.

    I want to water my garden with soaker hoses. Just got the cities permission to drill. store.solar-electric is recommending the SunPump @ $722 & Solar panels @ $900. I like the Grundfos but yes the price is about twice the price.

    Someone on this site recommended the Shurflo? Any reason why one over the other?

    The soaker hoses that I am using are black. They must be newer. They sweet and distribute the water evenly. Do I need to pressurize or will the pump do that? Would I need a tank?

    We normally water about three hours every other day at about 35psi. Appreciate your ideas. The other thing that has got me a bit stumped is the well casing. Shurflo wants 4 inch. SunPump wants 4 inch but likes 6 inch better. Best to order the pump after the well is drilled. What do I tell them to put in for a well casing? Decisions Decisions, Indiana Dave

    Water well will likely be less than 100 feet....find out more in a couple days. Thanks inadvance gang!!
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions

    You say that you water 3 hours @ 35 psi, but what kind of volume is that? Through a soaker hose is that 1 gpm, or 20? Does sort of make a difference.

    Tony
  • al128al128 Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    mcanaedi wrote: »
    I'm in the same boat here...not a water joke = ; > ) , just a long day.

    I want to water my garden with soaker hoses. Just got the cities permission to drill. store.solar-electric is recommending the SunPump @ $722 & Solar panels @ $900. I like the Grundfos but yes the price is about twice the price.

    Someone on this site recommended the Shurflo? Any reason why one over the other?


    I dont know if it helps you any ... but I have just started using a shurflo 2088 pump (can get you the exact model number if you want) ... it delivers a 3.6 gpm and I use it with a pump controller (got the [good] advice here on the board) and 2 units of 75w panels.

    it is powerful enough to run a standard "off the shelf" rotating sprinkler (the ones you can adjust to do anything from 1/4 circle to full 360°) at a very healthy pressure. The diameter of my "crop-circle" is about 50ft (I have no lift going on - surface well).

    pump was $90, the controller $70 ... the panels I had sitting around ...

    so, very happy with the outcome and price/benefit.

    cheers
    al
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    al128 wrote: »
    I dont know if it helps you any ... but I have just started using a shurflo 2088 pump (can get you the exact model number if you want) ... it delivers a 3.6 gpm and I use it with a pump controller (got the [good] advice here on the board) and 2 units of 75w panels.

    it is powerful enough to run a standard "off the shelf" rotating sprinkler (the ones you can adjust to do anything from 1/4 circle to full 360°) at a very healthy pressure. The diameter of my "crop-circle" is about 50ft (I have no lift going on - surface well).

    pump was $90, the controller $70 ... the panels I had sitting around ...

    so, very happy with the outcome and price/benefit.

    cheers
    al

    I don't think that the 2088 surface pump will pump from the well depth of 100' Surface type pumps push water quite well to a high head, but they don't pull water very well.

    I'm guessing here, but I think the 2088 will only "pull" water about 10' even though it will pump into 60psi.

    Tony
  • al128al128 Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: New well in progress newbie questions
    icarus wrote: »
    I don't think that the 2088 surface pump will pump from the well depth of 100' Surface type pumps push water quite well to a high head, but they don't pull water very well.

    I'm guessing here, but I think the 2088 will only "pull" water about 10' even though it will pump into 60psi.

    Tony



    you are very right!!!! - I misread the 100ft lift part!!! ... a 2088 is a no-go in this situation.


    afaik, no pump can pull more than 15 (or so) ft. head, as the increasing vacuum would make the water boil and the vapor would lock the water out


    ... for the same reason, all deep well pumps MUST be down in the hole, as there is no real limit to pushing water up - as opposed to pulling it ....

    thx for catching that!
    al
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