pellets

Re: pellets

Ya, same thing around here. I had an idea this was going to happen when we were looking at stoves. At first pellets were cheap because they were a waste product. Now the demand has exceeded the waste so the price has doubled since 2 years ago and basically you have to order them and get them when they come in, or pay 1.5 times that to get them right away in smaller quantities from someone who has them in stock. I know a local place opened last year that is taking old shipping pallets and turning them in to pellets, they had a pretty good price, but I went for regular wood. My father in law was looking at them because he was getting tired of moving wood and wanted the “automation” of pellets, when he priced it out it was about 10% cheaper then natural gas, but with a lot more work.

Re: pellets

When I was building custom homes, this question came up quite often. I advised client to look at the whole picture, and try to anticipate the future as best your crystal ball will allow.

One considerable downside to pellet stoves is that the require 24/7 ac power, so that let them out for the clients that wanted "emergency" heat. (BTW that is also a problem for most of the newest generation gas/lp space and water heaters, like Rinnai/Takagi/Paloma etc)

It seems to me that you should calculate the cost per btu IN THE ROOM, remembering that there are efficiency tradeoffs with most technology, as well as crystal ball guesses about the future cost.

The conclusion that most of my clients came to (over the years) was to use gas/lp for the major heat, using the most efficient furnace/space heat they could, then installing a freestanding, standing pilot gaslog "wood" fireplace or stove that would serve as "emergency" heat.

That said, if you are worried about your carbon footprint from your heat source and are leaning toward wood, consider spending more money on extra insulation.

Finally, everything else being moot if you have a source of free or inexpensive cordwood, and don't mind the work involved. The reality in most cases is that if you have to buy wood it is cheaper to buy gas net/net. Also if you have a local, ready, secure supply of wood waste pellets then that equation can change.

For my money, (I heat with wood since it is over abundant!) but if I had to do a system now, it would be no contest,,, I would use Rinnai space heaters in multiple area of a house. Very efficient (each unit) but with multiple units zone heating is VERY efficient, with little parasitic losses. Available in both LP and Natural gas.

Tony

Re: pellets

Neil,,
I'm not talking emergency heat, but normal everyday household heat.

My point is, if you don't have a supply of wood, or the inclination to cut, split stack, season and store it I think the Rinnai wins hands down over other heating systems (non solar).

All central heating systems require power to run, and all central systems have parasitic energy costs. (fans, pumps etc.) In addition, most central systems have some losses, (duct loss for example). Zone heating with forced air leads to problems with additional duct loss from a closed duct, unbalance of air when many registers are closed. Zone heating with hydronic is easy to do, but if you want to heat a space quickly, a Rinnai will do it much faster than hydronic. For example, you can keep the room at any temp above freezing overnight, program the Rinnai to turn on 15 minutes before you get up, and it quickly heats the room to that temp.

Rinnais are not cheap to buy, but they are very reliable and with a little care last decades. They also have a very small draw,, something like 55 watts full bore. The draw would be somewhat less as the fan speed and burner rate drops, so even a small ups or certainly a small generator will run one easily.

As for wood, a good epa rated stove, seasoned, dry wood can't be beat, but a fire place doesn't even factor into any equation even in an emergency IMHO.

Tony

PS Only wimps use splitters! Real men split their wood when it is -30!, axe, maul and wedge!

Re: pellets

The use of EPA rated stoves, using good seasoned and dry wood cuts down on emissions by over 90%. I know that in the Seattle area burn bans can be in effect in the winter quite often due to inversions, but EPA stoves are exempt.


It should also be noted that most people (in my experience) have no idea how to burn a wood stove cleanly and efficiently. With a new certified stove, once it is properly warmed up, the only thing visible from the flue should be heat waves. If you see visible smoke you are burning too slowly or burning wet/green wood. The old fashioned way of stoking the fire and then choking it down to a smolder is terribly polluting, as well as a very inefficient way to burn.

I have no problem with clean air regs, as they benefit the many, AND they are not that hard to comply with,,, not unlike the advances made in auto exhaust in the last decades.

Tony

Re: pellets

I agree that it could be and hopefully will be an easy way to transport energy. And as you said it can be made from all sorts of waste material as well as fast growing plants that otherwise were not very useful on their own. I read somewhere that they were even making pellets from wheat that was usually discarded back on to the field. The big catch is it cost a bit more because you sort of have to go out of your way to obtain it vs sawdust / scrap wood that is very plentiful at saw mills.

Again a place out here just started up that uses old pallets or other discarded wood. They even offer to pick it up. I noticed them on construction sites with dumpster like bins that are marked clean wood waste only. Then again I see construction workers backing up to those dumpsters and filling up their pickups, I am guessing for wood burning stoves and such. Either way at least it isn’t going in to a landfill.