2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt

t12zh
t12zh Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
I am looking at getting started with a GVFX 3648
And want to know what you guys thik of it.
2nd question is 12 vers 48 volt.
I built a 12 volt wind generator and a solar man told me to look into 48 volt.

i want get started with a grid tie system.
Just want some general input on this.

Comments

  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt

    The OutBack GVFX3648 is a 120 VAC 60 Hz utility-interactive inverter that requires a 48 V (nominal) battery bank. This inverter can “sell" excess energy to the grid, it can “pass thru” grid power to downstream AC loads, and it can charge batteries from the grid. It’s generally not compatible with AC generators. This inverter will not operate from a 12 V battery bank.

    Power (Watts) = Volts x Amps. Accordingly, 48 V systems require one-quarter the current required by 12 V systems, and smaller (cheaper) conductors can be used.

    Please tell us more about what you’re trying to do.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
  • t12zh
    t12zh Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt

    I have a 14 acre property with a modular home on it.
    I have been here 10 years and want to started on solar.
    I have built a 12 wind generator just to find out that i need 48 v not 12v.
    I will still use the 12v for something.
    Jeromy the solar man here suggested the inverter and to look more closer at 48V instead of 12V.
    My average use is $46.57 a month and seams like i am headed tward 9454 Watt hours a day.
    Would like to have an inverter that i can build apon ( add things to)
    The power Co Aquilla gave people down the street a check for 10 grand back on a 16k installed PV batterylell system, they will also get 2k on tax's.
    I am haveing a hard time deciding what to do.
    I am working with power Co to get a Net meter installed also.
    Seams the more i read and study the more confused i become :roll:
    Seams like 6 years to make a 50.00 dollar bill go away is not smart.
    I do want it to go away, that is why i built a small wind generator.
    Greg
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,422 admin
    Re: 2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt
    t12zh wrote: »
    Seams the more i read and study the more confused i become :roll:

    Greg, nope--you are getting smarter and finding that a pure solar RE system currently does not make economic sense except if you A) use relatively little power and/or B) have special circumstances (like no utility power).

    So, spending on conservation first (break the broken record)..#$%>.$>... Then figuring out what it is you want...

    Grid Tied solar is certainly the cheapest and best bang for the buck if you want electricity and have the right conditions to install (sunny area, utility that has good net metering plan). With rebates (sounds like you neighbor got a good one), one can come pretty close to equaling the current costs of utility power (and in California, it can actually be cheaper because CA increases the cost of electric power if you use more than 300 kWhrs/month).

    If, you want off grid/backup power, you need to look at how often your power is down. If it is down often and for long periods, a solar PV / Battery system is nice (with backup generator). If your power is reliable and you want just in case backup (it has been 50 years since there has been a power outage in my area that lasted more than a hour or two), then just a simple backup generator (no batteries) probably makes more sense (fuel storage, natural gas, and other issues need to be addressed).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,422 admin
    Re: 2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt

    Greg,

    Sounds like you are ready to teach at UC-Berkeley :p :

    Solar panels a 'loser,' prof says
    INSTALLING THEM AMOUNTS TO 'THROWING MONEY AWAY'
    Installing solar panels on homes is an economic "loser" with the costs far outweighing the financial benefit, a respected University of California-Berkeley business professor said Wednesday.

    The technology, using photovoltaic panels to generate electricity, is not economically competitive with fossil fuels and costs more than other renewable fuels, said Severin Borenstein, who also directs the UC Energy Institute.

    "We are throwing away money by installing the current solar PV technology," he said.

    Not surprisingly, the solar industry reacted strongly to the report.
    Neal Lurie with the American Solar Energy Society called the study "a publicity stunt."

    "Borenstein doesn't give proper credit to the important role that competition and economies of scale play in driving down costs," he said.

    And Julie Blunden, a vice president with San Jose's SunPower, said Borenstein's analysis was "deeply flawed."

    "He seems to be disconnected from the empirical data in the market," she said. "He doesn't seem to have much peripheral vision from his ivory tower."
    ...
    Under the most likely scenario, the cost of a 10-kilowatt solar system would be three or four times as much as the electricity it'll produce, Borenstein found. And even using a more favorable set of criteria, the cost would still be as much as 80 percent more than the value of the electricity it will produce.

    Borenstein's research wasn't sponsored by any group or organization or industry, and the UC Energy Institute does non-partisan research, he said.

    "I have nothing against solar PV and I hope it gets better," he said. "It's just very expensive and not terribly efficient."

    Borenstein said he didn't take into account the feel-good benefit or societal value of installing a solar system on your roof. "Certainly people make these decisions for a variety of reasons," he said.

    But installing better insulation would be a better bet economically, he said, although your neighbors won't know you did it.
    I like the last two paragraphs...

    The paper that is referenced in the article is here (I think).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt

    Dr. Borenstein might subscribe to the same ideas that Senator S.I. Hayakawa who said the poor can't afford fuel anyhow so let's tax it and make it $5.00 a gallon....
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,422 admin
    Re: 2 questions on inverter and 12 vers 48 volt

    Actually Dr. Borenstein does address taxes in his paper:
    Assume that we have a time series of system wholesale prices, wt, and system demand quantities, Qt, and that those system demand quantities were generated by a flat retail price that covered wholesale energy costs. That flat retail rate for energy (excluding capital costs of transmission and distribution, taxes and other fees) would be...Pavg=
    1/(1 − φ)...

    :p

    By the way, is that the SI Hayakawa quote accurate? The closest I found was:
    ...The president's attitude toward the Third World resembles Senator Hayakawa's toward the poor. Stopped in a Senate Building corridor, the Senator suggested a heavy gasoline tax to ease the energy crisis. What would that do to the poor? He replied, "The poor aren't working. They don't need gas."

    SI Hayakawa was known for saying very head turning things... Only to find out that there were some deep reasons behind the "headlines"... For some reason the non-working poor don't seem to have any problems with $8-$9 per gallon gasoline in Europe--So Senator Hayakawa would be correct :confused: ...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset