Vertical Axis Wind Turbine for Hot Water Heating?

martinfromuk
martinfromuk Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭
edited October 2022 in Wind Power Generation #1
Hi,

Love your forum and thanks for being here.

I recently purchased a 220v vertical axis low speed wind turbine and then was so glad to see it spinning around quite fast in what seems like just low wind speeds. I fed the cable from the turbine through into an nearby garden chalet where I connected an isolation switch and then into its own MPPT controller. I then put a voltmeter on this and when the wind was blowing quite fast I had a reading of 138 volts, and then when I pointed a garden leaf blower towards the turbine the reading shot up to 400 volts??? 

So would this be considered a good amount of power being produced?

Then reading your earlier articles on putting two vast together, it doesn’t seem like I can do so on the same system? But whether rightly or wrongly I have just ordered another 3 of these turbines with the intent if possible of connecting  these three somehow together or individually to my hot water heating system with suitable immersion heater elements. I also do have a Sunny Boy SB 3.8 Inverter which is not being used and wonder if I can incorporate this somewhere and wire this in from the control box connections with additional isolation switches and breaker/fuse fitted after the Inverter and before the 30 metre wire run towards the hot water tanks in the house?

So it would be good if I could do it somehow this way and then feed our Self produced clean energy into the system in our house which draws the most energy with 2 x 3kW hot water heating elements going almost 24/7.

Therefore any advice you can give me would be much appreciated as there is not much information out there.

Many thanks in anticipation 

Martin 



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  • martinfromuk
    martinfromuk Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭
    #2
    Sorry somehow a line came up through the text in my post. 

    Also it should read I am hoping to use a total of 4 x 220v vertical axis wind turbines if possible?

    Many thanks again

    Martin 
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #3
    Welcome to the forum Martin.

    Can you give us the make/model number of the turbines... Or post a link?

    To be upfront--Personally I am not a fan of small wind. There are few well designed and working wind turbines out there (that will run one year reliably)--And they do need maintenance (turbine needs to be roughly, at least, 10 meters above the ground and 10+ meters above any up wind obstructions (trees, homes, hills, etc.).

    And it needs to be a windy location (if you complain about the wind, you may be in an OK location). Looking for "flagging trees" (trees that are shaped by the prevailing winds--Are also a good indicator.

    And there are the choices of turbine types... Horizontal Axis Wind Turbine (HAWT) are the typical turbines in use almost everywhere... In my humble opinion, Vertical Axis Wind Turbines have only ever been "successfully used" in parks and on buildings to show how green the people are. I have never read of anyone that every got a "useful" amount of energy from a VAWT--And because of the mechanical designs, VAWTs seem to fail even more often than HAWT types.

    And, VAWTs also need to be installed in "clean/non-turbulent" air too... I.e.,. 10+ meters above the ground (few people seem to do that with VAWTs).

    Here are some links (from ~2009). The first is a discussion on this forum:

    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/3638/small-windpower-a-scam-survey-says-so/p1

    Many of the links are dead now, but perhaps you can find the report in a library/government site somewhere?

    I think the links below still work. The first two I think are still good (I am on a very bad/slow CellPhone VPN--So they are not loading for me right now)"

    https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/04/small-windmills-test-results.html (English language article about the testing)
    https://www.lowtechmagazine.be/2009/05/testresultaten-kleine-windturbines.html (Dutch language version of above link, longer article)

    For those of us language impaired--The above link translated to English (and this one does load for me--No pictures or graphics):

    https://www-lowtechmagazine-be.translate.goog/2009/05/testresultaten-kleine-windturbines.html?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui

    Now to the technical side... From Electrical Engineering 101, we have the power equation:

    Power = Voltage * Current

    If you have 280 Volts and Zero Amps-- 180 volts * 0 amps = 0 Watts of power...

    And for turbines, more or less, the tourq (resisting the rotation of the blades) is proportional to the current... If you try to draw too much current from the turbine (i.e, bad blade design, too small of blades, to small of blade diameter, too large of generator/alternator) the current will create torque and slow down the blades... And if there is not enough wind, or enough "force" from the blades in wind, then "excessive torque" will slow down and stall the turbine (it will hardly spin even in high winds).

    And if you don't "match" the output of the generator (technically a generate makes DC or direct current voltage/current) or the Alternator (makes alternating current or AC current/voltage--and you need to rectify that to DC for charging the DC battery bank), you can lose a lot of the power from the generator/alternator...

    Say you have a 280 Volt output from your turbine, and connect it to a 12 VDC battery bank. And you have 1 amp of current... The math looks like:

    Power = Voltage * Current
    Power @ maximum power point = 280 Volts * 1 amp = 280 Watts from turbine into 280 Volt load
    Power @ battery charging point = 12 volts @ battery * 1 amp = 12 Watts

    There are answers for all of these (and other) issues... But I/we need to understand where you want to head with this project.

    The chances that your project as laid out (in my very humble opinion) will generate any "useful amount of energy" is pretty low...

    From this post in our FAQ section:

    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/77299#Comment_77299
    Wind Power Links
    www.otherpower.com (good forum for DIY Wind Power)
    Hugh Piggott - Scoraig Wind Electric site for tons of info (from mike90045)
    Scoraig Wind "Recipe Book" for DYI Turbines (from Chris Olson... From his 4/11/2013 post)
    www.greenpowertalk.org (added from "russ"--Like here but more wind/less solar)
    Small windpower a scam ? Survey says SO
    Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    Windmax HY-2000 2kW Wind Turbine (apparently, some vendors don't sell spare parts--just new turbines. However, the owner, Edward has been very happy with its performance from 2010-2012--BB. 5/31/2012)
    I cannot confirm that all of the links (from ~2009) still work (again, very slow connection for me right now)--But some interesting reading.

    Your thoughts/comments?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • martinfromuk
    martinfromuk Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭
    #4
    Dear Administrator,
    Thank you very much for your comments and I shall take all these onboard.
    However I already have purchased these 4 Vertical Axis Low wind Speed Turbines which this morning as we have a windy day is turning at almost full speed I would say.
    I would love to have had a large Hawt  but we have planning issues in the UK, distance from building etc. but also the biggest hurdle is my wife and so to have a wind turbine at all it had to be a small vawt. 

    I have attached a photo of this which I purchased off Amazon, described as and hope this helps but my question is really how do I wire these up in order to charge a hot water heating element if at all possible please?

    Many thanks again 
    Martin 

    9000W No Noise Vertical Magnetic Levitation Upright Wind Turbine, 24V-220V with Waterproof Charge Controller 3 Blades for Home Use Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Product details

    BrandTqingWattage9000 wattsItem weight12 KilogramsVoltage220 VoltsColourWhiteEngine type4 Stroke

    • 1. Magnetic levitation generator Coreless generator, Horizontal rotation with high efficiecny 
    • 2.3 blades with curved design,utilizes wind resource effectively and obtains a higher power generation 
    • 3. 20years use life and 1 year for warranty, warmly welcome to be our agent. 
    • 4.small ,light ,stable and safely, special control principle expended the wind speed to 2.5 ~ 25m/s, utilizes wind resource effectively and obtains a higher power generation. 
    • 5.High efficiency, could be hybrid system with solar panels for home use, LED street light, planting room...ect

    Product details

    BrandTqing
    Wattage9000 watts
    Item weight12 Kilograms
    Voltage220 Volts
    ColourWhite
    Engine type


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  • martinfromuk
    martinfromuk Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭
    #5
    Plus Photo’s as promised
    many thanks
    Martin
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #6
    I am guessing this is "your" VAWT?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B098J2Z1B7

    First question... Is the photograph of where you are planning on installing the turbine (inside the treeline/wind break)? Without knowing more, the turbine(s) should be installed at least 100 meters from the treeline (in the open fields) to harvest any "useful" amount of energy.

    I looked around real quick, and did not find any manuals or information on the unit & controller... So I cannot really evaluate any of the electrical stuff on how to integrate into a water heating system.

    Reading the comments/reviews in the above link, it appears the turbine is really rated for 9,000 Watt*Hours per day at 10 m/s wind speed (not that I really believe this is possible with this VAWT, but for sake of discussion, say it is)...
    • 9,000 WH per day / 24 hours per day = 375 Watts @ 10 meters per second
    10 m/s = ~22.4 mph or 36 kph... That is a lot of wind--And would never see that under/near trees.

    More or less, the energy in wind is the cube (^3) of the wind speed... A very windy place may average 6 m/s, and a typically windy location may average 3.8 m/s (open field, 3-10 meter tower)... 3.8 m/s is equal to 13.68 kph or 8.5 mph. That would mean this turbine would average:
    • derating for lower wind speeds = (Vactual / Vrated)^3 = (3.8 m/s / 10 m/s)^3 = 0.055 of "rated power" using the cube/power law
    • 375 Watt (at 10 m/s rated power) * 0.055 derating (for 3.8 m/s) = 20.6 Watts average harvest
    • 20.6 Watts * 24 hours per day = 494.4 Watt*Hours per day
    • 494.4 WH per day * 30 days per month = 14,832 WH per month = 14.8 kWH per month (equivalent to typical monthly utility billing)
    21 Watts at nominal operational wind speed does sound somewhere near what I would (guess) this turbine would produce. If they unit was in the "middle of an open field" on something like a 10 meter tall tower.

    The reviews for the above turbine are all pretty bad (most have returned or attempted to return for lack of usable output)--Although, that may be because of misunderstanding of how an alternator based wind turbine works (issue of 3 phase AC power from turbine vs the typical 12-48 VDC battery system needs).

    Do you have a manual/information on the electrical performance of the VAWT and its included controller?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 519 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Just taking one look at the size and location of this turbine, I'd say forget it!
    To get any meaningful energy output you need:
    1. Lots of blade area (doesn't matter if horizontal or vertical orientation; these look pretty tiny to me).
    2. Lots of wind speed (a gentle breeze might get you enough power to charge your cell phone)
    3. Laminar flow wind (which you are NOT going to get buried n the trees; turbine has to be high off of the ground)
    4. SIGNIFICANT wind velocity. 20mph (which feels pretty strong) will give you 13% of the power generated at 40mph (which many turbines are rated at)
    Island cottage solar system with appriximately 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing due south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter which has performed flawlessly since 1994. Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller four 467A-h AGM batteries. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge 1/4hp GSW piston pump. My 31st year.
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