SOL ARK with APS in Arizona

JasonAZ
JasonAZ Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
in Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems #1
Hello all!

Anyone have experience with SOL-ARK and APS?   With APS requiring a Production meter this kind of "pass through inverter seams impossible to use.  So far APS is saying they have to have an interconnection agreement even if I am zero export. 

Thanks everyone! 
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2022 #2
    So if the inverter back feeds to you panel the meter just goes in that line to measure the total watts being fed to the panel. I am surprised they still require it but mine system has one from 12 years ago.  Not sure they ever read it with the smart meter they have now keeping track of the total being back fed to the grid.

    If you attach to the grid in anyway you have to have a interconnect agreement.
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  • JasonAZ
    JasonAZ Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #3
    solar_dave said:
    So if the inverter back feeds to you panel the meter just goes in that line to measure the total watts being fed to the panel. I am surprised they still require it but mine system has one from 12 years ago.  Not sure they ever read it with the smart meter they have now keeping track of the total being back fed to the grid.

    If you attach to the grid in anyway you have to have a interconnect agreement.
    This is a pass through inverter.  Meaning the power coming from the inverter is from GRID, PV, or Batts.  or a blend of all 3.  The new 15K has a built in 

    About the only way around I see is a Non Communication meter then APS does not furnish a production meter.  
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    JasonAZ said:
    solar_dave said:
    So if the inverter back feeds to you panel the meter just goes in that line to measure the total watts being fed to the panel. I am surprised they still require it but mine system has one from 12 years ago.  Not sure they ever read it with the smart meter they have now keeping track of the total being back fed to the grid.

    If you attach to the grid in anyway you have to have a interconnect agreement.
    This is a pass through inverter.  Meaning the power coming from the inverter is from GRID, PV, or Batts.  or a blend of all 3.  The new 15K has a built in 

    About the only way around I see is a Non Communication meter then APS does not furnish a production meter.  
    The way I understand this inverter is that it is capable of back feed of the grid as well. Am I wrong? I do believe that any power creating device attached to APS grid has to be approved.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2022 #5
    APS territory @ Phoenix, AZ  has lots of sun. 

    You could just go off grid or turn off the grid when you want to use the Sol-Ark ?

    If you need to charge your batteries from the grid and want to be "legal" about it, get a battery charger for the bulk.

    You could also use the solar and batteries and Sol-Ark for critical loads or air conditioning and not connect that circuit to the grid.

    Different possibilities.    Or, just get it all approved etc and use for self consumption.  Don't let that sunshine go to waste.

    boB

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Schneider and Outback, the two I use both have zero export modes where they can't sell and therefore the Utility will not see the issue.
    However, if you have home insurance, you could be denied in a claim if the Insurance company thought this was an issue.

    Do more searching on what others are doing in your area. I would ask the building department also for their take on this.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #7

    I am just not quite sure what the deal is when a bi-directional inverter has a current transformer connected that tries to keep any real energy from flowing back into the grid ?   Anything appliance with a displacement power factor less than 1.0 sloshes some VA back into the grid and back again so there must be some kind of allowance for that at least.  

    They are "capable" of selling back so they call that grid tie ?  There is some possibility that the current/voltage fed back to the inverter could break and excess power could sell back I guess.

    There are motors that if connected to the grid and someone forces them to turn faster, could actually sell energy back I suppose...  What about that ?    My feeling is that in most cases, the utility just doesn't really want anybody making their own energy !  Even if the utility can't provide all that the customers need.

    And an insurance company that could find a reason NOT to pay for a house fire that did not 100% comply with legal regulations would certainly take advantage of that.  That goes for an off grid cabin that is insured but not inspected.

    boB

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  • JasonAZ
    JasonAZ Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #8
    Ok an update for this thread.  

    APS requires an interconnect agreement any time you have a PV system and still use APS at any capacity.  Does not matter if you sell back or not.  

    They have a sample drawing showing the approved connection when using a battery back up system.  A total of 3 meters (2 bi and 1 uni directional) and 3 disconnects are used!  They certainly don't want you using any power with them being able to track it!  
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    From my experience, it is only if you agree to using your battery for the Utility and the Utility giving you a lower rate or some other perk  by signing.  I do not know what Arizona APS has done, and it sounds like you do. No time for me to look it up.

    However, if you have a PV system, and your Inverter is set-up not to sell, and self consume the PV, they will not know. 

    They could look at your usage and see that it has declined or that you are not using power when the sun is out from your smart meter.

    I am just curious on this as I often do consults and sell equipment for people with a grid tie inverter to add a Hybrid Battery inverter/charger for back-up. I do this all over the world and have not heard this. I suppose they would be concerned with who installed 
    the solar and as Solar Dave said if you have solar you have to have an agreement. Living in Phoenix it is big city rules and regs.

    Living elsewhere outside of Phoenix proper,  it is very different from my experience. ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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