Getting the Trace Xantrex power panel together- slowly but surely

showme
showme Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
edited August 2022 in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Hung the two "old" new in box SW5548's this week. Since they're about 140#'s each, i used a come-a-long and rope to mount the top one and man handled the lower one off of a table I've set up for working. Had to wire most of the system since I dismantled it when i bought the original single inverter set up. I also had to make up the wiring for the second inverter, including the battery to disconnect box and disconnect to inverter 4/0 cables. Bought a crimping tool, lugs and shrink boot and all went very well. The biggest and toughest part of this job is figuring out where the wiring is routed. I have the manuals for the inverters, AC and DC disconnects and charge controllers, but some of the illustrations (AC disconnec by-pass breakers, specifically) look like a plate of spaghetti, so it took awhile to discern what goes where. And any good pics or drawings of the connection to the inverter's AC side are pretty much AWOL. But it's coming along! I'm putting some pics on here, but I haven't mastered the picture attachments on this forum yet. They keep coming out giant sized. How do you make them thumbnail size here?

"Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do."   Goethe

2006 Trace Xantrex power panel, (3) SW5548 inverters- 2 NOS Trace's (1999) and 1 Trace/Xantrex 2006 for back up (came with power panel. et al), Xantrex DC/disconnect, Xantrex AC disconnect/bypass, (3) C40 PWM charge controllers- 2 NOS, one used. (8)Evergreen  Solar 120w (960w),  8k LG Neon 2, (25) 320w, Bergey XL.1 1.5k genny, Air X 400 genny (came with used system), 48v Interstate Workman batts (now frozen/toast), (2) Montana Solar adjustable Top of Pole 12 array racks, (2) Midnite Solar MSPV 4 combiner boxes, (2) Midnite Solar Classic 150's (one an SL), SOK LiFePo stack of 500ah and one nice Ozark hilltop to set them all on.


Comments

  • m151
    m151 Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭✭
    A good looking system! My Trace system has been running for 26 years. Note to China: You guys love to copy, so copy this!
  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 519 ✭✭✭✭
    My Trace inverter 28 years!
    Island cottage solar system with appriximately 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing due south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter which has performed flawlessly since 1994. Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller four 467A-h AGM batteries. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge 1/4hp GSW piston pump. My 31st year.
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My Trace inverter 8 years, only because it was sitting in the factory sealed box for 15 years. 
    Showme has a pair of 5548's that are factory pristine as well. Very likely he will never need another inverter, ever. (We're the same age)

    An Electrical Engineering friend of mine suggested I connect my SW 4024 to 12 volts for a few minutes before I connect it to the 24 volt bank. He said that because of sitting for so long it would be better to pre energize the capacitors or whatever  with a lower voltage. I did that. It did light up the LCD readout as well. I don't know whether or not this is beneficial but it apparently didn't hurt it.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • showme
    showme Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    edited August 2022 #5
    I will be doing that very soon, too, LH2. As I said, these two inverters are marked as being built 2nd quarter of 1999 and the certificate is marked June 1999, so even though they've never seen life outside their shipping boxes and plastic wrap, they're still 23 years old! I chuckled when I saw the warranty card in the mix of items that came out of the plastic wrap. "Hey, I better send this in to get it on record that I'm just now firing them up!" I don't think there's anybody there anymore, Lee (sigh). All I can say is Thank God for forums! 

    I found out something about 4/0 cable fittings that i never knew, even after 40 years of welding and welding cable- there are apparently 2 different sizes of 4/0 wire. I ordered 16' of 4/0 cable to make the battery and inverter DC cables with, and then ordered 6 tinned copper ring type fittings and shrink tube to use for them. I was down at the property the other day fabbing the cables, and after stripping the sheath off the copper, I had a hell of a time trying to make the fittings go on. I smashed, twisted, and even ground the leading edge of the copper to make it work. I checked the label on the package they came in and it was definitely marked 4/0. Couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong! I actually pulled some of the strands away from the center of the cable until it could insert it into the fitting, then crimped it, wrapped the excess strands around the base of the fitting, then added the shrink boot over it and figured that was as good as it was going to get. I learned in my early days of welding that you should never reduce the amount of conductor material, so i was hoping this would classify as "ok". That night i got on the internet and searched for why this happened. I had ordered the fittings (Anco fittings) off of amazon, and went back to check my order, and that's when i found on the list of fittings that there is an XL 4/0 fitting.(!?) I'd never heard of an extra large size of a welding lead. I thought 4/0 was 4/0. It's the only size that has XL fittings. Just my luck. So now I guess I'll eat those first six i bought and order the XL's and do it right. I hate wasting time. I hate re-work. Oh well. I'd rather do it over and know it's done right than wish I had after something screws up. 

    I also flubbed on ordering the cable. I took the measurements off the set of Trace cables that came with the power panel I'd bought. (2) 5 footers and (2) 2 footers for the inverter/DC Disconnect run. Well, the 5' battery cables were fine, but when i came to the inverter cables, even before the cable arrived, I realized that the run from the DC disconnect to the lower inverter would NOT take the same amount of cable as the upper inverter, which is where the single inverter system was mounted. The path for the lower inverter has to go around the top of the 250A breaker, swing down to the lower outlet in the box and then head over to the inverter. I had already crimped the fitting and added the red shrink boot for the "positive" cable, but hadn't cut it to length yet, so I snaked it into the box to check what I would have left over. It was short by about 18". So now I have to order another length of 4/0 to complete the "negative" cable. Another purchase, another wait. The positive about this is that I'm getting it for $4.99 per foot and $4.99 shipping for new cable. Everywhere else is going for over $6/ft. So I guess it could be worse. The bad part is I ordered 16' the first round, thinking 2' extra would do it. All the while thinking to myself, "Man, I should probably just go ahead and get 20', but what would i do with a 4' piece if i didn't need it?" That's what I get for worrying about a piece of scrap wire. Now I have an 18" piece anyway. 

    It sure is nice to see how many people have these units on the forum. I've been waiting to do this for 25 years. I've had the single inverter power panel for 10 years and the two new Trace inverters for 5 years. This set up was what I've always heard was top of the line, state of the art, bullet proof, and the 'tank' of inverters, and by golly, that's what I wanted to have. But I have to admit that there are times that I wonder what the heck I was thinking after Xantrex sold out to Schneider, not to mention that Trace was defunct once it sold to Xantrex. No support, no warranty, no body at home that I could contact about questions and problems. But hearing you all give these positive comments just restores my confidence. Thanks for all the comments and help. Don't think I won't be flooding you all with questions once the system is cranked up. You all are now the Trace Xantrex customer service replacement for me. I can't wait! 

    "Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do."   Goethe

    2006 Trace Xantrex power panel, (3) SW5548 inverters- 2 NOS Trace's (1999) and 1 Trace/Xantrex 2006 for back up (came with power panel. et al), Xantrex DC/disconnect, Xantrex AC disconnect/bypass, (3) C40 PWM charge controllers- 2 NOS, one used. (8)Evergreen  Solar 120w (960w),  8k LG Neon 2, (25) 320w, Bergey XL.1 1.5k genny, Air X 400 genny (came with used system), 48v Interstate Workman batts (now frozen/toast), (2) Montana Solar adjustable Top of Pole 12 array racks, (2) Midnite Solar MSPV 4 combiner boxes, (2) Midnite Solar Classic 150's (one an SL), SOK LiFePo stack of 500ah and one nice Ozark hilltop to set them all on.


  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    You can also hit the Midnitesolar forum.  boB and Robin Gudgel were the head barbers at Trace, Xantrex, Outback and now Midnite.  There's also some audio history with them in the 1970's before Xantrex.  They help everyone!
  • showme
    showme Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Right! Actually, one of the things that inspired me to go this route was seeing, a long time ago, the pic of Robin's system that he had in his "early days". I think they still have it hanging around somewhere. I have the exact same system.

    "Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do."   Goethe

    2006 Trace Xantrex power panel, (3) SW5548 inverters- 2 NOS Trace's (1999) and 1 Trace/Xantrex 2006 for back up (came with power panel. et al), Xantrex DC/disconnect, Xantrex AC disconnect/bypass, (3) C40 PWM charge controllers- 2 NOS, one used. (8)Evergreen  Solar 120w (960w),  8k LG Neon 2, (25) 320w, Bergey XL.1 1.5k genny, Air X 400 genny (came with used system), 48v Interstate Workman batts (now frozen/toast), (2) Montana Solar adjustable Top of Pole 12 array racks, (2) Midnite Solar MSPV 4 combiner boxes, (2) Midnite Solar Classic 150's (one an SL), SOK LiFePo stack of 500ah and one nice Ozark hilltop to set them all on.


  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    You can run into cable sizing issues in several ways:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
    https://www.westmarine.com/west-advisor/Marine-Wire-Size-And-Ampacity.html
    1. AWG wire sizes, not SAE: All Ancor wire uses AWG wire sizes. SAE wire sizes are 6 to 12 percent smaller, carry proportionally less current, and have greater resistance
    • AWG vs SAE gauges... SAE is a little bit smaller than AWG.
    • Solid (not going to use "solid" 4/0) vs course stranded (typical wiring for home/industrial) vs find stranded (such as welding cable). The "finer the stranding" the more airspace in the cable.
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • showme
    showme Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Yeah, these are very fine strands. I just never realized there are more than one size of specific gauges. This was marked AWG, as it should have been. I could see if it was the casing that was larger,  but 4/0 is 4/0, or so I thought!

    "Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do."   Goethe

    2006 Trace Xantrex power panel, (3) SW5548 inverters- 2 NOS Trace's (1999) and 1 Trace/Xantrex 2006 for back up (came with power panel. et al), Xantrex DC/disconnect, Xantrex AC disconnect/bypass, (3) C40 PWM charge controllers- 2 NOS, one used. (8)Evergreen  Solar 120w (960w),  8k LG Neon 2, (25) 320w, Bergey XL.1 1.5k genny, Air X 400 genny (came with used system), 48v Interstate Workman batts (now frozen/toast), (2) Montana Solar adjustable Top of Pole 12 array racks, (2) Midnite Solar MSPV 4 combiner boxes, (2) Midnite Solar Classic 150's (one an SL), SOK LiFePo stack of 500ah and one nice Ozark hilltop to set them all on.


  • showme
    showme Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Now that I've attempted to get the original Trace cables that run from the DC disconnect box to the inverter, I'm wondering how they ever got the darn things into the lugs at the factory. These aren't the cable i just ordered to make up the second set, they are the ones that came with the original power panel set up. It's like the lugs were too small to begin with. Even the lug on top of the original 250A battery disconnect breaker has wire strands that wouldn't fit, so they're sitting on the top of the breaker. I even re-cut the cables to get a clean, tight cable to start with. (They looked like they do now when i bought the system, so I'm not sure if this is how they were when new). I don't get it. I've repaired lots of welding leads (cable) in my life, but i've never had any that wouldn't fit in their sockets for grounds clamps, stingers (electrode holders) or couplers. I don't get it!

    "Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do."   Goethe

    2006 Trace Xantrex power panel, (3) SW5548 inverters- 2 NOS Trace's (1999) and 1 Trace/Xantrex 2006 for back up (came with power panel. et al), Xantrex DC/disconnect, Xantrex AC disconnect/bypass, (3) C40 PWM charge controllers- 2 NOS, one used. (8)Evergreen  Solar 120w (960w),  8k LG Neon 2, (25) 320w, Bergey XL.1 1.5k genny, Air X 400 genny (came with used system), 48v Interstate Workman batts (now frozen/toast), (2) Montana Solar adjustable Top of Pole 12 array racks, (2) Midnite Solar MSPV 4 combiner boxes, (2) Midnite Solar Classic 150's (one an SL), SOK LiFePo stack of 500ah and one nice Ozark hilltop to set them all on.