Is there a way to reduce Inrush Surge Current for efficient solar design?

SunnyFarmer
SunnyFarmer Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
Obviously the solar system can be designed for load.
Is this the only solution?

How can we reduce the overdesign required for running 240V Ballasts:
Power 315W
Input voltage(AC) 240V 50Hz
Line Current 1.42A@240V
AC inrush current(Max) Cold start, 50A/230V
Rated Power 340W




Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    Welcome to the forum SunnyFarmer,

    What is the ballast for (green house HPS or Metal Halide or similar)?

    One of the basic methods to limit surge current is to use NTCs (negative coefficient resistors). Basically, relatively high resistance when cold, and as they heat up over the first few seconds, their resistance falls and allows almost full voltage/current to the load:

    https://amwei.com/ntc-thermistors/inrush-current-limit-surge-suppress-power-ntc-thermistors/
    https://product.tdk.com/en/techlibrary/applicationnote/howto_ntc-limiter.html

    This may be a bit more for an end user to attempt (picking the parts and building a surge suppressor module).

    There are LED based greenhouse lighting... Should be much less surge.

    And there are electronic ballasts---Here is one company that has less than 20 Amp surge:

    https://www.umelighting.com/sale-13821946-265vac-hid-digital-greenhouse-ballast-ceramic-metal-halide-highbay-wave-electronic.html

    Also--If you have multiple ballasts on a single solar inverter--You might look into sequencers... I.e., start first ballast, wait 5 seconds, then start the second, etc... Using time delay relays or other controller(s).

    There are a few DC ballasts out there:

    https://www.emergencylighting.com/productpdfs/d48tspec.pdf

    But probably too small for your needs????

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SunnyFarmer
    SunnyFarmer Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited June 2022 #3
    Hi Bill,
    Yes, If I run more than one ballast, the idea was to prevent more then one device starting at a time.

    I have read about NTCs (negative coefficient resistors).
    It is not clear if NTC would be suitable for CMH ballast, or if it was, which NTC would be used.

    Here is the Ballast Product:



  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    Without knowing more about the electronic ballast design, it is difficult to make any educated guesses. One option would be to try their email addresses and ask them the question:

    http://www.ebm-lighting.com/index.php?a=lists&catid=22

    Many electronic power supplies have a (relatively) large capacitor on the input stage--And that would be what is charging. And doing some sort of soft start would not be a big issue. However, too slow of soft start and the unit may not "boot" correctly.

    They may also have a "soft start" version available (no specs):

    https://www.gold-agents.com/product.aspx?id=25245315

    There are other designs that use Triacs instead:

    https://neurochrome.com/pages/the-ultimate-guide-to-soft-start-design

    NTCs are pretty cheap, and you can get "perf board" (fiberglass pre-drilled boards for proto-typing). NTCs are available from Amazon (US) if you want to try:

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=uxcell+NTC+Thermistor+Resistor+inrush&crid=3QKPG8Q67WOYU&sprefix=uxcell+ntc+thermistor+resistor+inrush

    Maybe a 10 Ohm 2 Amp unit?

    https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Thermistor-Resistors-Current-Temperature/dp/B07L11VR22

    But even then, it would limit surge current to (240 vAC / 10 amps = ) 24 Amps...
     
    None of this stuff is that expensive (in parts). But if you hire an engineer to design and build--The costs will be a huge deal. And still do not know if this will work with your brand/model of ballast.

    Sorry I cannot provide much more help here.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SunnyFarmer
    SunnyFarmer Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited June 2022 #5
    Quote:However, too slow of soft start and the unit may not "boot" correctly.

    Yes, this was my thought, otherwise the ballast manufacturer would just include and the problem would be solved?

    I am not an expert on these things, and just looking to the commercial world for answers
    EBM Lighting are only good for sales questions, anything else gets ignored.

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    You can try one (or more) solutions such as the NTC I linked to above (I guess you are in Australia--So what is available locally may be different).

    I don't think it will damage anything--Just monitor the input voltage and make sure it is above ~216 volts (my suggestion) while the ballast and lamp are running (after a few seconds of "surge" suppression).

    I don't think it will damage the ballast--If it does not "boot" within a few seconds of delay (over "normal boot time"), then turn off and try something else. With the NTC, you could bypass with a time delay relay ("shorts out the NTC" after a few seconds) and run "full power' to the ballast.

    For example, an inexpensive HVAC delay relay:

    https://www.amazon.com/EvertechPRO-Timers-Replacement-Universal-ICM105/dp/B08R31646Y/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3QDPKHW3L3FKS&keywords=time+delay+relay+240vac+20amp&qid=1655486959&sprefix=time+delay+relay+2,aps,944&sr=8-3

    Just wire in parallel with the NTC so that after x seconds, the relay will "bypass" the NTC.

    It appears that the ballasts are around USD$70 (plus shipping) here... You have to decide the "risk/reward" of doing your own testing.

    I don't expect the NTC to "self destruct", but suggest that you put it in a metal junction box, or similar on an insulator/perf board just in case and mounting on an insulator with thru holes so that (for example) a solder joint comes loose and the exposed wiring shorts out.

    "Off grid" power systems are a bit of "niche" market. And adding a few cents to a few dollars to a $70 high volume product that will rarely be used in an off grid setup is just a "loss of profit" for the mfg/seller.

    Most of the operations around here are utility power or, for "other" remotely located grow-ops setups tend to use diesel gensets which can manage the extra surge current.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SunnyFarmer
    SunnyFarmer Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited June 2022 #7
    Yes, in Australia.
    Here is the Globe Specs in case it helps in NTC choice.
    https://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/conventional-lamps-and-tubes/compact-high-intensity-discharge/mastercolour-cdm/mastercolour-cdm-tp/928493400030_EU/product

    So NTC wired across delay switch, wired on ballast input active wire?
    EvertechPRO TD69 Time Delay is only rated at 1 amp.
    https://content.interlinebrands.com/product/document/0/661424_SpecSheet.pdf
    Do I need 1.42 amp @240V as in Ballast Specs?
    Seems simple, hopfuly I understand correct.

    Thanks
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    Oops--My mistake--Yes the Evertech is not rated to drive an HVAC motor directly--Need to drive a separate relay... You need a heavier rated relay/TDR to ensure that the ballast does not overload the contactor (probably looking at >20 amps to ensure surge does not blow out the contacts). Anyway, you get the idea.

    L1 ===+====NTC ===+=== Ballast=== L2
                |                        |
                +==contacts==+

    That will ensure the NTC does not "restrict" the Ballast voltage/current, especially if the ballast is switched on/off with its "remote" control (draws something like 25 Watts when in "standby"?).

    There are a lot of time delays out there--But finding one with a "high current" set of contacts included... I am not finding one quickly (I have to head out now).

    That Evertech unit--The wrong choice here unless the "LOAD" is a separate 240 VAC contactor...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    By the way, you can use a simple on/off switch (such as a light switch) as the "bypass" and an NTC for testing (i.e., turn on power, count to 2 or 5 and close switch manually). At least you can test the concept cheaply (or even leave the switch "open" and see how hot the NTC gets when ballast is "on" and "off" and how much voltage drop there is with the NTC).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SunnyFarmer
    SunnyFarmer Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Quote: (probably looking at >20 amps to ensure surge does not blow out the contacts).
    With 240VAC Mains I use 10Amp timer to control, HPM 7 day, or cheap chinese without issues.
    Reading the ENERSONIC test it sounds like there is a delay between power at Master and power to slave?
    https://www.ozstock.com.au/9336/Energy-Saving-6-Outlet-MasterSlave-Power-Board-with-Surge-Protector.html?id=9336#ship_tab

    ENERSONIC - Energy Saving 6 Outlet Master/Slave Power Board Test:

        Turn on your MASTER device, plugged into MASTER socket. After a short time, you will see that the Enersonic power board has automatically turned on the power to all connected SLAVE devices.
        Turn your MASTER devices off. After a short time, you will see that the Enersonic power board has automatically turned off the power to all SLAVE devices.
        The Enersonic power board has now been installed correctly and will work automatically.
        The time taken for SLAVE sockets to be activated is dependent on the power taken by the device connected to MASTER socket.

    Specifications:

        Brand: Enersonic
        6 power sockets
        1 master, 3 slaves and 2 switchable sockets
        Cord length: 1m
        Maximum Surge Energy: 375 Joules
        Maximum Surge Current: 13500 Amps
        Clamping Voltage: <775 Volts
        Response Time: <10 ns
        3 Channel Protection: Yes
        Thermal cut-out: Yes
        Neon Surge Protection: Yes
        Operating Voltage: 240V Max 10A
        Maximum Load: 2400W

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    You could use (inexpensive) regular timers (mechanical, electronic) -- Just set them to cycle on 1 minute (or 5 minutes, depending on how accurate they are) to spread out the surge current for multiple ballasts...

    I am not in the lighting business, so I cannot really give you much more. I was searching for "soft start" ballasts--And there could be some confusion between "soft start on AC input" (you want) and "soft start output for longer lamp life" which seems to be what most searches give results for.

    Anyway--I think you have some options and understand what is needed.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SunnyFarmer
    SunnyFarmer Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    The only affordable relay found is only 16 amp and would need some type of trigger delay: https://www.wiltronics.com.au/product/41346/master-slave-power-switch-230vac-400vac-kemo-m103n/