help!....pwm charger not charging?....

shelbybeck
shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9

hello everyone, I am new here and also a newbie to the solar/off grid world. 

I sure am hoping that you knowledgeable folks can point me in the right direction per my situation...I hope I am posting in the right place,.....if not,..please tenderly direct me to where I may find the right venue for my question.....;)

so my situation is pretty straight forward.

I have a class c motorhome with 3/100 watt renogy panels on the roof.

I have a "sun yoba" 30amp pwm charge controller

and I have a 3 battery-deep cycle/fla battery bank connected in parallel....each with 175 rc.

I have a 30amp circuit breaker in between the charge controller and the solar array, as well as an identical circuit breaker between the batteries and the charge controller.   (blue seas-30 amp surface mount-marine style breaker)

___________________________________________________________________

initially,.....I had bought this kit from renogy, and it came with their 30amp pwm charge controller which I fried....lol

and I'm still not sure how it happened, although I have a suspicion that the batteries backfed into it when I had my converter on and the controller wasn't switched on. 

originally, I had the renogy controller switched on, with the converter running and it was ok.....however it was at night and I had not yet fully checked the system in the daylight to see if the controller was charging the batteries.  I basically had it connected for the first time,......the lights were on on the controller, but I had not yet tested it in sunlight.

the next day I had shut the whole system down via a battery shut off switch to do some other work.  When I was done, I flipped the battery shut off back on, and then plugged in the camper via the 30 amp AC house cord to use the converter.

I was standing inside the coach and I smelled the infamous electrical burning smell and ran to unplug the coach.

at first I didn't know if it was the converter or what it was......so the next day I came out to investigate and discovered it was the charge controller.  I took it apart and it looked like the positive lead for the battery had fried the little soldered terminal inside.

the strange thing is that the two little 40 amp fuses inside were not even melted at their links!......?

**big breath**....sorry for the dissertation.....lol

so I figured that because I didn't have the charge controller actually switched "on", that somehow the battery bank, coupled with the charging of the converter backfed the controller and fried it.

additionally, at the time, I didn't have a circuit breaker going from the battery bank TO the controller,....

I only had one positioned between the array and the controller.


soooooooooo.......lol......I purchased a NEW controller,.....one with an LCD display unlike the renogy.

and another 30amp circuit breaker.  I installed the breaker between the battery bank and the new charge controller, and I installed the new pwm controller.


so NOW...the charge controller's LCD screen is on and is indicating power from the batteries, BUT it does not show that the actual batteries are receiving a charge.  The display constantly reads 12.6/12.7 volts, but the little arrow going from the pv array to the batteries just remains blank. 

when it is working properly, the little arrow should blink and be solid-colored.

so what it looks like is that the controller is reading the voltage of the battery bank, but there is a problem with the actual power from the solar array being sent to the batteries?....

man, I am so lost on this......the sun was out and strong all day yesterday and the screen just sat there and did nothing......lol

I kept checking it and scrolling through the menu to see if I could change the settings , but nothing happened.

my battery bank and everything is connected clean and wires are all tight with nice terminals and ground lug/fuses/etc.

do I just have a bad controller?....how do I check it?.......where do I check to see if the solar array is putting out power?

how do I check the controller to know if it's bad?......

PLEASE help a newb out..........I am going to be leaving in a few weeks on a winter trip and need my solar system to be

working right or im gonna be in trouble....lol

I can take pictures and post,......or anything you need me to do to get this problem resolved.....

thanks so much in advance for your help and patience!!......;D

I've don'e a lot of digging online and on youtube......but have not been successful....

Comments

  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Not much to go on here, have you done a complete check of the wiring and all the connections?  checked polarity of all wires, + and - ?? it helps to use RED shrink tubing when the wires are all black, like on the solar panels...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Check the solar array voltage... Should be higher than the battery voltage (perhaps ~+1 volt if the batteries are charging, and >17.5 volts if the batteries are not charging).

    Note, the batteries may not be charging if the voltage is always >~12.7 volts--Although, most controllers will hold ~13.6 volts or so as a "float voltage" (if your controller has that function) when the sun is up (and around 14.2 to 14.8 volts when the controller is charging).

    Assuming everything is cabled correctly, you should be able to connect several different charge controllers to the same battery bank without issue. The controller with the highest setup voltage "wins".

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Are you making sure that when you throw breakers, that you are switching the batteries in *first* and then switching the panels in *last*?

    Most controllers need to follow this connection sequence.  Other than making sure it gets its brains together to deal with the panels, when the panels are connected first, the controller assumes you have a ZERO volt battery, and will either fail to operate, or in some cases default to a simple float.  This is an attempt to be safe with what it thinks are totally dead batteries, which is easily emulated by attaching batteries last!  And, they will try to stay safe by staying in a a float-condition, until you shutdown, and reconnect in the proper order.

    I note that the Yoba controller specifically mentions this (in addition to saying the the temperature-compensation thermocouple MUST be attached.)  Lack of the thermocouple could also make it default to simple float only mode.

    You didn't mention what your replacement controller is - but the sequence of connection should be similar.

    Note too that even with 300W of panel power, your battery bank is just too large to be charged efficiently if you haven't done your homework about DOD, and your hours of solar insolation available.

    If you fix your controller issue, seriously consider only running TWO of those batteries in parallel, if your load will allow for not going beyond 50% DOD, AND you have sufficient solar insolation to get them charged up again.

  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9
    edited December 2015 #5

     hi again everyone......thanks so much for the feedback, I've been offline for a couple days, but hopefully I can finally get this problem figured out.

    I have this funny feeling that all it is is the settings in the controller, but I can't figure out where I'm going wrong.

    yes, all the connections are correct, clean, shortest runs to battery bank, and polarity is correct.

    I have positive and neg. indicators on wires, so yeah, good there.

    also, yes, I do realize that when I energize the controller, that I have to activate the battery bank breaker first , and

    THEN the panel/s breaker.

    the current controller is the sun yoba 30amp LCD controller....and yes the thermocouple is connected.

    http://www.amazon.com/Sun-YOBA-Charge-Controller-Display/dp/B00ADKOMDI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449843002&sr=8-1&keywords=sun+yoba+30+amp+pwm

    replacing the renogy 30amp controller....the one shown in this kit....

    http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Polycrystalline-Starter/dp/B00DCEKKQ0/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1449843101&sr=8-15&keywords=renogy+30+amp+pwm


    I do believe my battery bank is small enough....however I'm all ears if you think this is the problem?....

    here are my batteries.....I have three hooked in parallel......

    http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/resolute-marine-rv-deep-cycle-battery-24-mo-575-cca/0000000219386#


    my question for BB is......."how do I actually test the array to see what's coming out?.....

    can you please give me laymen's terms on how to go about this?.....

    also, if you look on the yoba controller,.....it shows two arrows.....one to the left and one to the right of the battery

    on the display.

    when the controller is switched on (battery bank first and then the panels).....the arrow to the LEFT of the

    battery icon should be flashing.....but it doesn't do anything.  So my hunch is that it's not reading the power from

    the panels,....the settings aren't correct in the controller menu.......OR the controller is bad?.....


    if someone could just help me understand how to set the controller voltage? or check the voltage of the panels or

    guide me in the right direction of how to actually CHECK the system, I would be grateful.

    remember,....the tech jargon is alittle lost on me, so you may have to keep it in simpler terms....

    I have a good basic understanding of it all,......but the terminology I am still learning.....

    I will be leaving soon, so I really need your help.....I don't have a lot of time left...if I can't get this figured out

    I'm gonna have to use that damn generator,,,,,......and lord knows I don't wanna do THAT.....lol

    thanks so much for your help!




  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9
    Are you making sure that when you throw breakers, that you are switching the batteries in *first* and then switching the panels in *last*?

    Most controllers need to follow this connection sequence.  Other than making sure it gets its brains together to deal with the panels, when the panels are connected first, the controller assumes you have a ZERO volt battery, and will either fail to operate, or in some cases default to a simple float.  This is an attempt to be safe with what it thinks are totally dead batteries, which is easily emulated by attaching batteries last!  And, they will try to stay safe by staying in a a float-condition, until you shutdown, and reconnect in the proper order.

    I note that the Yoba controller specifically mentions this (in addition to saying the the temperature-compensation thermocouple MUST be attached.)  Lack of the thermocouple could also make it default to simple float only mode.

    You didn't mention what your replacement controller is - but the sequence of connection should be similar.

    Note too that even with 300W of panel power, your battery bank is just too large to be charged efficiently if you haven't done your homework about DOD, and your hours of solar insolation available.

    If you fix your controller issue, seriously consider only running TWO of those batteries in parallel, if your load will allow for not going beyond 50% DOD, AND you have sufficient solar insolation to get them charged up ag


  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9

    :'(can someone please help?......I really need help figuring this out


  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9

    maybe my batteries are full?......please help...

    I'm gonna try to watch some more videos and read some more articles....

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    using a volt meter to measure the voltage at the input/outputs of the charge controller--Will tell you a lot (when sun is shining on panels).

    It is difficult at times to understand what is going one. The charge controllers is making decisions based on what it "sees" and even on time too (i.e., hold absorb voltage for 2-4 hours, then fall back to float).

    If the batteries are full, the charge controller will pass very little current (just like it is supposed to do). But you should measure the voltage at the battery terminals (night, morning+sun, afternoon+sun, etc.) and see that the battery bank is doing. ~12.7 volts and no sun/load is battery ~100% full. At 12.0 volts and no charging/loads, ~50% full--But remember lead acid battery voltage varies with loads/charging currents, temperature, state of charge, etc.).

    When the batteries are charging---If full, you will see something like 13.6 volts. If the batteris are charging and getting near full, they should be at ~14.4 to 14.8 volts.

    http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-clamp-on-ammeter/p-03482369000P

    And, you should get a good hydrometer--That is the "gold standard" for figuring out how your batteries are doing.

    http://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9
    ok, thanks for that info.....i will test the battery bank at rest and then during the day......

    i'm still not sure what to do though,......i've been watching videos on how to test the solar panels to make sure they're ok,...but still not really touching on any real practical advise......


    i'ld like to know how i can test the panels while they're mounted......i can't get to the junction boxes, so not sure how to test them.....can i do it through the mc4 connectors?, or can i just test the wires coming from all three panels?......

    bloody hell,....i don't know where to start.

    I will take your advise about testing the incoming and outgoing power from the controller....

    hell, I'm still kinda new to an ammeter, so yeah.....alittle wheel spinnage goin' on.........lol


  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9

    http://www.ceshowroom.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CWR40632&click=2&gclid=CjwKEAiAy7SzBRD_lv7quOnr6XUSJAAOLkW6btTlesAJd7SG_jOHIK_AoYhX2-jwKoDdBBOJnFWXmxoCLxbw_wcB

    this is a link of the circuit breaker type In the solar system..

    I have two of these....

    one is between the controller and the panel array..........and one is between the battery bank and the controller.

  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9

    the above link is showing the circuit breaker I am using in my system...

    one is beween the controller and the solar array........and the other is between the battery bank and the controller....

  • shelbybeck
    shelbybeck Registered Users Posts: 9

    http://www.ceshowroom.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CWR40632&click=2&gclid=CjwKEAiAy7SzBRD_lv7quOnr6XUSJAAOLkW6btTlesAJd7SG_jOHIK_AoYhX2-jwKoDdBBOJnFWXmxoCLxbw_wcB

    here is a link showing the circuit breakers I have for the solar system.....

    I have one of these between the charge controller and the panel array, and between the battery bank and the controller.

  • papab
    papab Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭
    BB. said:
    using a volt meter to measure the voltage at the input/outputs of the charge controller--Will tell you a lot (when sun is shining on panels).


    -Bill
    Start with that,  in the daytime.  That will tell you if you have a connection to the panel
  • Johann
    Johann Solar Expert Posts: 245 ✭✭✭
    I would start with checking the voltage at the panels. Set your volt meter to DC volt. put the red lead of the meter to the plus lead  of the panel and the black lead to the minus lead at the panels. you should get about 18-20 volt DC if the panel is aimed/angled  to the sun. Most of those Multi meters can NOT handle the high amperage of the panels without burning them up, you would need a amp-meter that can handle about 10 amps just to measure 1 panel. But yes, I would recommend to check the amps also. You could always get a cheap amp-meter from this web/forum sponsor.
    You always could hook up a 12 volt  car headlight directly to the panel to see if the panel works, but be warned that the headlight could burn out since the voltage of the panel is higher than 12 volts, but at least you would know that you get power out of the panel.

    Now move your voltage testing down your panel wires right before the breaker + and the -, right after the breaker + and - and the voltage should be panel voltage. Make sure the breaker is turned on before taken the voltage measurements.

    Testing the controller is more tricky.
    A full battery may not show any flow into the battery at the controller, but this depends how the controller is designed internally. Some of the cheaper controller just turn the power to the battery off if a a set voltage of the battery is reached.
    So....we could hook up one 100 watt panel to the controller and put about 400 watt load on the battery but use only one of your 12 volt battery. Hook your volt meter to the battery.
    With the load hooked up, your voltage of the battery should drop and then your charge controller should kick in and should show the charging arrow and should show the amperage. Remember the panel has to point to the sun when doing this and the amperage may get up to 5 amps depending how much charge the battery has, if the battery is getting drained or may have less amps if the battery is still full.
    Also remember that one 100 watt panel will not charge the battery if the load is 400 watts, this is just done to drop the voltage of the battery to see if the charge controller will start to charge and put amperage through the controller.

    Make sure that your controller is set up right.






  • tin
    tin Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1
    What it means if the panel symbol and the arrow symbol going to battery symbol is blibgking and the battery is sybol is empty?
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It means your panel is producing power and your battery is heavily discharged. Is your battery healthy? What does the voltage on the controller say?

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • thisucks1
    thisucks1 Registered Users Posts: 3
    i put the three batteries in series that will charge while connected together and charging at 14.1 - 14.5 still waiting for it to go to float . with the inverter on .
    but i did charge each battery by itslf for two hours , and let them sit for two hours and the voltage was 12.9 and others down to 12.88ish , the panels are working , 22v each, to the controller before the controller wouldnt charge beyond 13.5 wouldnt even charge to float.
    but i picked out three batteries that when linked together will charge normal. at 14.1 - 14.5 thats where im at now. thats with inverter working. like i said still waiting for float  but the other five batteries i put aside when connected to the other three that are in there, will drop the charge to 12.3 -12.5 maybe .6 , hmm  . but ill know for sure if their really charging the three if it reaches float charge,
  • thisucks1
    thisucks1 Registered Users Posts: 3
    i just un plugged the array from the controller and its steady at 12.9v ill wait an hour or so to see if it drops , i turned off the inverter so i can get a good reading. i was wondering if the three batteries that are charging at 14.4 -14.5 are charging becouse their draining or their just charging norma becouse their low , they were 12.1 this morning , and the batteries i took out were charging below float charge even though they were at 12.1 this morning also , maybe their the good batteries?

  • tabbycat
    tabbycat Solar Expert Posts: 55 ✭✭✭
    You connected the batteries in series? I hope not.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    you were trying to charge a 36 volt battery if they were in SERIES, yoiu nedd them in PARALLEL to charge with a PWM charge  controller.... You would need a MPPT charge controller to  charge a 36V battery.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada