hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
My friend kindly decommisioned a (10 year old) 129Volt battery bank for the Utility company he works for.
The (20) 6 volt batteries made their into my pick up truck and are now tucked away off-grid at my remote summer cabin located on a Gulf island in Vancouver BC.
He supplied all buss bars, and racks and connectors BUT ....no charger.
Is there a way to recharge these 129V batteries? Off Grid?
He said Hayley of Alberta makes chargers but I don't know?.
Do any of you utility Grid tie folks know anything about 129Vdc battery banks???
I'd like to put some juice in them!And QUICK. They are EXIDE CA-9 deep cycle, storage batteries...6.45V @ 160a/h each (20)
Can you guys help me recharge them?
Please.

Kevin
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Comments

  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    Kevin,

    For 20 of these wired in series, you'll need a "120 V" charger with an absorption stage capable of ~148 VDC at 77 F. Don't know of any such beast.

    A different route might be to reconfigure the 20 batteries into a 4 (in series) x 5 (parallel strings) to make a big "24 V" bank. You could then charge/maintain all of the batteries using a 24 V inverter charger such as the DR3624 or an OutBack 3524.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    But, this is interesting: http://www.nationalrailwaysupply.com/PDF/Power_Sentinel.pdf

    :confused::confused:
    Jim / crewzer
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #4
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    Hi Jim,
    Thanks to your inquiring mind and supportive personality I was able to follow the link that you sent to the local distributor of EXIDE CA-9 batteries here on the Westcoast of Canada.
    He gave me the name of a local utility supply company that supplies big 120Vdc chargers to the (ie:hydo power) industry.
    ....maybe I could score big!!
    Meanwhile, he suggested I use a large automotive battery charger and a 3000W generator to get some badly needed juice into those dead and delapidated EXIDE CA-9's.
    It may not be pretty...... but it might help them survive the winter months ....and take the pressure off me!
    I will look for the perfect charging and PV system in the summer when my neighbour arrives with his 24v and 48v charge controllers.
    I have been advised that windmills have improved somewhat and are becoming a decent way to go!
    Thanks for the valuable links and the follow up advice.
    kevin
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    Kevin,

    Not to miss the obvious, but why don't (didn't) you leave the batteries on the mainland and keep them grid charged until you get the rest of your system. I know that you have trucked them to the island but perhaps it would be wise to truck them back and plug em in.

    Just a thought,

    Icarus
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    ICARUS
    if I my mother had four wheels and an engine.... then she would have been a car!! Why suggest I do something different 6 months ago?? I might have purchased stocks in Apple and we could all be rich??
    They are on an island....180lbs each, 55' vertical cliff, winter storms!! row boats !!!access issues? equiment theft? no grid? enough reasons??
    duh
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    I too live on an island so I'm familiar with the problems. (Our problems are small boats, and an extended freeze-up and break-up season that leave us island bound).

    I didn't remember after reading all your threads from the beginning of this dilemma that you had moved the batteries to the island already.
    Didn't mean to start a ruckus!

    Icarus
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #8
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    My electrician friend just left after a visit.
    He says the Utility company he works for charges (20) 6V batteries with a 129 Volt DC charger. He says the (20) 6V battery bank supplies power for the substation if and when there is ever a blackout.
    He also assures me that 129V chargers do exist.....so, I told him to find me one!

    Now... using 129Vdc to power my tools is interesting because generally tools are fickle with things like PSW or MSW alternating current?

    So, using DC voltage @ 120V eliminates the need for DC to AC conversion? PSW or MSW and the losses associated with it inverters etc.

    Am I making any sense?

    129V charger is somewhere!.... I would just like to own one!

    Kevin
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #9
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    I think a "Universal Motor" will run just fine on MSW, DC, or True Sine... It should not make a big difference (assuming they are not variable speed trigger controlled).

    Not much else though will work well on 129 VDC... (other than incandescent lamps and wide range power factor corrected power supplies used in many modern high end computer systems designed for world wide use (95-264 VAC 50/60 Hz)--but knowing which power supplies will work would require contacting the manufacturer--and they won't say because they may not know or would fear liability issues).

    By the time you went to all of the work and expense--would it have been better to just buy a good sine wave inverter/charger from Outback or equivalent.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #10
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    Hi Bill,
    You may be correct.
    48V and 24v systems are more common. But ,what if I just want to run my tools and lights in the cabin.
    What about a dishwasher or washing machine?
    On the input side of things am I correct in saying a 120V PV panel is hard to find?
    How about a 120V windmill generator?
    Why have smaller voltage?
    What would be the advatages of a smaller volatge system? over 120Vdc?
    Anyone?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #11
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    You can put multiple panels together in series--in the case of grid tied--all the way up to 600 Volts DC (NEC maximum).

    Regarding the optimum voltage... Several issues. Generally DC has a limit of around 48-60 volts DC in the codes, and when it gets above those levels, it needs to be treated like 120/240 VAC (in terms of insulation, barriers, etc.) which affects the design/manufacturer (more than the end user).

    Also, DC voltage/current tends to sustain arcs much better than the same thing in AC--so you have to find and use specialized DC rated switches and fuses which are larger and more expensive than their AC counterparts.

    To use a washer, you would need to either convert or find a DC unit. The timers (if mechanical) use synchronous AC motors, the main motor is AC, etc... DC motors need brushes--a high maintenance item.

    Of course, you can use electronic controllers to control brushless DC motors--but those are not going to be cheap either.

    A 120 volt DC windmill--you may find one, and there are lots of AC alternator type windmills where you might be able to use a transformer to jack the voltage up...

    In the end, you should probably wire the battery bank at the highest voltage that you can find reasonably price support equipment for... 12 VDC is fine for low power systems, 24 and 48 are going to be your common higher power system with commonly available components (charge controller, inverter).

    And, you can even fine ~192 VDC inverters that are used in larger computer backup UPS systems... Read about a couple used with Prius Whole House UPS backup.

    However, you will not find the integration in a 192 VDC UPS that you would find in a purpose built Outback MX-60 plus pure sine Inverter (generator start, integrated AC charge current+Load Current control, Grid Tie connection, etc.)...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: hayley generators? Calgary. Alberta

    In answer to your last question, if you stay 120 DC then every decision every new addition to you set up will be an uphill battle. You will need an transformer to give you Ac power, Jim's idea of re arranging the freebie batteries to a more convienient standard like 24v 0r 48 v makes sense .

    Don't see the point in reinventing the wheel when a shuffle of battery interconnects is all that is required.;)
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