Need to match new batteries with old panels
Would the system be well matched? For a 48V system should the panels be changed to 6 strings of 2 each? Thanks for your help! We cannot add to or change the panels, but we can purchase different batteries if recommended.
Comments
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lets step back a bit and tell us how you believe the fried batt bank happened.. it may give us clues to prevent it reoccurring...and also why you want to go to AGM, which have their own issues...
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Good question. Someone set the charger on equalize and left it that way for a couple days. Batteries (Trojan L16 flooded) fried. We're not great at maintenance, so I'm hoping AGM will be a little more forgiving.
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Hi Dmitri,
Welcome to the Forum.
Those Flooded Trojan batteries should be able to accept many hours of EQ, if they do not run low on water, and the battery temperature is kept below about 46 degrees C. AND, one must use a Battery Temperature Sensor with all charge sources, this is especially important when EQing a battery.
You should appreciate, that much of battery maintenance, is really paying attention to them, and giving them what they need, approximately when they need it. AGM batteries are sensitive to charge voltage, Absorb and Float times, as well as proper temperature compensation values and Limits.
If you have an MPPT Charge Controller (CC), and we assume that you do, you will be better off keeping the four strings of three PVs.
As you know, sizing the battery bank, and PV power really depends upon the loads, and the time of day that these loads occur.
FWIW, Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes. 25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel, Honda Eu6500isa, Eu3000is-es, Eu2000, Eu1000 gensets. Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum. -
Thank you Vic and Westbranch for your input. The building is remote and not occupied for 1 or 2 weeks at a time, so monitoring is difficult. It's a garage/classroom inside a wilderness park. That was the impetus to go for AGMs.
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What brand and model is your charge controller? As Vic pointed out you need a temp sensor for your controller.
Whatever it is that happened to your flooded batteries, it will be MUCH easier for it to happen with AGM batteries.
There is no reason you can't have flooded batteries... they will do just fine for a few weeks at a time without attention.
--vtMaps
4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
Charge controller is Outback FM80-150V MPPT. Is there a temp sensor available for it?
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Here is one (I think it is the right one--no other options):
RTS - Outback Power Remote Temperature Sensor
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
BB. said:Here is one (I think it is the right one--no other options):
RTS - Outback Power Remote Temperature Sensor
-Bill
YES, Bill that is the correct RTS for the OB FM CCs, and well worth the price!Dmitri, it is quite possible that a major issue with your Trojan Flooded batteries was that there appears to have been no RTS on the FM-80.
During an extended EQ, the battery temperature can rise significantly. This temperature rise requires that the EQ voltage be reduced ... a further temperature rise requires yet further reduction in the EQ voltage, and so on. Without the RTS, this required automatic voltage reduction does not occur. Without this compensation, battery current and temperature rise can increase above values that the batteries can tolerate, and can approach Thermal Runaway. This may well be the main factor in the issues with the Flooded batteries you have seen.
Sealed batteries, like AGMs are more sensitive to proper charge voltages and Absorb time, and they need a reasonable amount of time in Float, to attain proper full charge.
AND, with AGM batteries it is often difficult to determine if they are being fully charged, as one cannot measure the SG of the cells. So, in time, these batteries can deteriorate from chronic undercharging. On the flip side, overcharging AGMs is also not good for them, if this is done over an extended time period.
Also, AGMs are more expensive, and have about half the number of discharge cycles, compared to Flooded batteries.
What is the nature of "fried" condition of the present battery bank ... did the plates become exposed to air from low electrolyte levels, or ... ??
Please carefully consider your choice for replacement batteries.
Thanks for any additional details, Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes. 25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel, Honda Eu6500isa, Eu3000is-es, Eu2000, Eu1000 gensets. Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum. -
Not sure if the fm 80 adjusts the voltage via the temp compensation during eqilisation . It is my understanding it will shut down eq if battery temp reaches 50 deg C .2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid holiday home
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discussion about fm 80 eq temp compensation http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=50872225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid holiday home
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Thanks to all for the great information. Anyone know an expert in my area? Joshua Tree, California.
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petertearai said:Not sure if the fm 80 adjusts the voltage via the temp compensation during eqilisation . It is my understanding it will shut down eq if battery temp reaches 50 deg C .
Hi peter,Yea, I DO know that the MX-60 definitely did NOT compensate Veq, but have never run any FM CCs, had hoped that OB would have added that important function.
The MidNite CCs DO allow the user to select weather or not the Veq is compensated -- have been using Classics for five years, or so. Compensation of Veq is important on longer EQs, and for Automatic EQs, otherwise, for one or two hour EQs the user can manually compensate at the beginning, and perhaps again at the mid-point.
Thanks for that info, peter, Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes. 25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel, Honda Eu6500isa, Eu3000is-es, Eu2000, Eu1000 gensets. Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum. -
Dmitri said:Thanks to all for the great information. Anyone know an expert in my area? Joshua Tree, California.
Our Fall and Winter office hours are from 8 AM to 4 PM, MST, Mon-Fri. We are closed for major holidays. If you are in the Flagstaff area, please stop by our store and visit - map link: Get Map to Store
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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