911 Came home to no power

morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
Go figure!
Went to my families for christmas and spent one night away.
Came home to the power off.
The CC was saying float and the Remote said off....turned the inverter on from the remote. Fan kicks on red fault light flickers then the whole thing goes off...turns back on says something about running self check or diagnostic...turns back on , but not supplying power. Says OFF on the remote.

I try the reset on the Inverter....hold it...for the time recommended. I see on the remote it says:
Unknown fault FF
then:
Unknown fault 64
and DC 598.1V   8
Here is a shot:

11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face

Comments

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi morpho,


    Try switching the Main circuit breaker to the Inverter to OFF.   Wait a minute or so,  and switch if back ON,  and see what happens.   I know nothing of the Magnum Inverters.


    FWIW,  Good Luck!   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    Hi Vic,
    no joy...
    hmmmm...

    I currently have the genset running on bypass.... but it's odd. When I put the voltmeter to an outlet I get 45V AC
    But it is running the circ pump for the floor. (currently -28 outside...so this is priority #1) lights won't turn on, but the fridge is back on and it's light is working.

    My PV supplier/installer is gone until the 4th!

    I have a grumpy looking wife wandering around lighting candles!
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi morpho,


    Thanks for the added info.   You might try unplugging any/all cables to the Remote,  waiting and plugging them back in ...


    It is cold.   What is the battery voltage now?   Do you know the High Voltage Disconnect setting on the inverter?


    In Bypass the genset should power all of the AC loads,  instead of the Inverter,  so if the genset is not overloaded,  all AC outlets should work OK,  if the bypass configuration is wired in the standard fashion  --  AC cables from all of the inverter loads are switched from the inverter to the output of the genset ....   But bet that genset is 120 VAC out,  and the Magnum may be set up and wired for 240 VAC output.   So perhaps some outlets are not powered ....   dunno.


    Let us know,  how you are doing when you have time.  Good Luck,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    The bank has been in decline and I am set to replace the batteries on the 4th when I can get my hands on them from my PV guy. Hoping it is just the batteries.
    The SG readings were about normal...the voltmeter was reading 52VDC when I first got home...it has fallen dramatically in 3 hours considering there is no load on it: 48.3VDC

    The High voltage batt setting is the default 68VDC

    There is no way the genset is over loaded. One small fridge....a WIFI/signal booster and one circ pump.
    The magnum is wired for 120 as is the house...no 240.

    Just need to get this place up to temp and shut it down for a few hours....get back up middle of the night to maintain the heat...hahaha...
    good times I tell ya...good times!


    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭
    OK morpho,   Thanks for the update.   Good Luck with all.    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,505 admin
    Almost sounds like you have a broken neutral wire some where.

    Start your measurement at the power source (inverter or generator) then move out to the main panel and loads.

    If you have a ground connection, make 3 measurements.

    1. Hot to neutral
    2. Hot to ground
    3. Neutral to ground

    1. Should be 120 vac and 2 & 3 should be zero to 3 volts (roughly) maximum. (Assuming you have a grounded neutral true sine wave inverter system).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    thanks for the input guys....too dark in here and too cold out there to be messing around right now....morning will come and will see whats what.
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    Well...now the remote is saying low batt fault...not a massive surprise...just really bad timing.

    The really disconcerting part is the funky Voltage in the house.

    I went out and started the gen up....120 at it's receptacle. Plug in the cable. ....120 there.

    ...120 at the bus bars where the incoming gen wires are hooked up.

    Not sure where else to check inside the E-panel.....so I went to the house service panel one leg is 120 the other is 45

    It is of course a weekend in the holiday season and I live in the middle of nowhere. and my PV guy is gone till the 4th!
    Perfect storm!
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,505 admin
    120 VAC Hot to Ground?
    45 VAC Neutral to Ground?
    xx VAC Hot to Neutral?

    If so, look in the epanel and the main panel neutral bus bars... Sounds like a loose screw and/or burned/corroded neutral connection.

    It sounds like an 'open' neutral wire connection somewhere (45 VAC/variable neutral to ground voltage is not be sinked to the neutral bus bar).

    Of course, if your DC Battery input is low--All bets may be off.

    Good luck (or at least better luck than you have been having recently).
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2015 #11
    .thanks BB and Vic

    So I drove most of the day to a hardware store...grabbed a GC battery and replaced the known offender.
    Restarted the whole thing and insta presto!!! everything is back up and both legs of the service panel have 120VAC!

    I am just 200 bucks in the hole now because I already have 8 batteries coming my way! Dummy tax I guess.

    Thanks.
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • dogdudedogdude Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    Glad you're up and running. Just curious...how does one failed battery cause the AC bypass to not work? Is this typical of other inverters as well?
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    dogdude said:
    Glad you're up and running. Just curious...how does one failed battery cause the AC bypass to not work? Is this typical of other inverters as well?
    Depends on the inverter and the state it is in, Generally once you disconnect the DC voltage ( batteries ) everything will go dead, as all the circuitry and transfer relays are controlled with battery voltage. Sometimes if your in bypass and have AC input you can disconnect the batteries and the Inverter will remain in bypass until you disconnect the ACin, then it requires battery voltage to restart the system.

    A installation should have a manual bypass with circuit breakers so you can bypass the inverter and take it out of the loop in case of failure.
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    I am super glad to be up and running!
    Regarding the bypass "failure" -  I am hoping it is simply a function of the batteries and not something wired incorrectly. I will have to have a good poke around with the PV installer to make sure I am still on track.

    Well...until the next: "HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM" moment around here....thanks again everyone.  (Though to be fair it has been super smooth for almost 5 years...so not too much to complain about)
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    It was just Murphies brother that visited.... ;)
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    Ya...but I think I keep offering him a beer and letting him sleep on the sofa.
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • inMichiganinMichigan Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭
    I'm curious what you measure now, back at the place where you saw 45 VAC before.   I haven't thought of a failure mode where 1 bad battery would let your inverter do what it did.    Also, in one place you said you have 120 only, no 240.  I another place, you mentioned Leg 1 and 2.   In an inverter with only 120, coming from the 2 legs of the breaker panel, at what point do those 2 circuits become the 'same' at the inverter?   
    inMichigan
    42 SP-335's (14.1kw) ->   4 FLEXmax 80's /  100 AH CALB /  FLEXnet DC  /  MATE3  -> 2 Radian GS8048A and watched over by Vantage Pro 2+ PWS
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm curious what you measure now, back at the place where you saw 45 VAC before.   I haven't thought of a failure mode where 1 bad battery would let your inverter do what it did.  
    My thoughts exactly... I'm glad you brought it up :)  --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    Well lets see...I probably failed to be clear...or I failed to understand...either way I failed I suppose.

    Granted I have no idea at the moment if the failed battery had anything whatsoever to do with the low voltage in certain circuits in the house. Once the battery was wired up I didn't try bypass again. This is something I need to look into...but probably with someone who knows a ton more about it than I do. But I can tell you I have 120VAC on both sides of the service panel now whereas before it was 120 on one leg and 45-ish on the other.

    Maybe this is where we are confused?... you said:  "In an inverter with only 120, coming from the 2 legs of the breaker panel..." I have 120 coming from the inverter or genset to the home service panel. (or breaker box if you want) and one leg was not getting 120VAC.

    Regarding 240...this is true...I have nothing wired for or needing 240 in the house...or coming from the genset. My best guess is this is where the problem is. I have a hot..a neutral and a ground coming from the genset and somewhere in the e-panel we are missing a connection for the generator to directly supply to both legs of the breaker box.


    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
  • SolarMusherSolarMusher Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    Morpho, Your PAE is 120Vac on each leg and 240Vac between both legs. Charging from a 120Vac only generator (connected to only one and only one 120Vac input) could be done with a PAE and still provides 120/240Vac even when charging, you will have all the power from the gen but at 120Vac only and you'll need to limit pass through current to not overload this small ef3000ise.
    Of course, you would have better results with a stronger 240Vac generator but this small battery bank doesn't really need a lot to be charged.
    Happy new year!
    Erik
  • JoshKJoshK Solar Expert Posts: 232 ✭✭
    What is PAE?
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    JoshK said:
    What is PAE?
    Look at Morpho's signature... he has a Magnum MS-PAE inverter.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • morphomorpho Solar Expert Posts: 174 ✭✭✭
    HAPPY NEW YEAR!
    (was asleep by 10pm...again!)

    Yes I have pass through at 30%. (20 amps +/- coming in) Which is actually almost spot on for the 10% of 230 Amps the Bank requires.
    I am sure I need a more astute person to have a look at the set-up to make sure I have it correct in there. 
    Slowly...I learn.....very slowly. Prior to doing this I hadn't even purchased a lightbulb in my life never mind had to understand wiring/electrical. (lived the bulk of my life on the road) I am closing in on 50 and last year I got my first TV. That MASH show is great! 
    Built my own house from top to bottom.... by myself ....not a contractor in site. Never even built a bird house prior to this. So I had to learn electrical, framing, hydronics, gas fitting, insulating, drywalling, plumbing, metal work, PV, concrete work, cabinet making, etc etc etc. 
    So yup I have my meagre mind spread a bit thin. Maybe I'll go watch some more MASH...
    11.5 kw array  -  3 - midnite solar classic 200's   -  Magnum MS-PAE Inverter  -  Magnum ME-RC50 remote  -  ME-BMK batt-monitor  -  8 DEKA Solar GC15 230amp hour (48v) - Yamaha ef3000ise - 1 confused look on face
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