Outback Inverter with generator

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
I will be getting a GT Outback Inverter and I was wondering on how they work with a Generator?

I have a fairly large 8570 gas Honda that I would like to use for back up and maybe auto start for bulking the bank.

I would also like to get an EU2000i for charging as well and other light duty.

Does the inverter just have a 120 in and then charges the battery from geny or may Grid?
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    as long as the generators are within voltage, frequency, and overall power spec for operating the inverter there shouldn't be any problem and the same goes for using the charge feature from the grid as well. once in awhile the generators will fall outside of spec and it is even rarer, but not impossible for the grid to be too far out of spec.
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator
    I will be getting a GT Outback Inverter and I was wondering on how they work with a Generator?

    Skywlkr,

    Are you considering a grid-interactive inverter, i.e., one than "sell" to the grid such as the GVFX3648? Outback does not recommend using these inverter/chargers with generators, as the inverter is looking for grid-quality power. However, some folks have been able to connect their grid-interactive OutBack inverters to inverter-based generators like the Honda EU2000i

    Tell us more about your plans and the specific equipment you're considering.

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #4
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    I want a small grid tie system that completely powers two rooms of my house, bed room and office (with refer and freezer run on extension when the grid power fails).

    Later I would like to have enough spare to Sell back but I am not expecting to.

    I want it for power back up for hurricanes and what not.

    But I want to be able to charge the bank if I have to use more than the sun allows.
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    the g series will most likely not work with the large honda it may with the small one but i highly doubt the large one will
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    Skywlkr,

    OutBack grid-interactive inverters (i.e., the GVFX3648) can charge batteries from the grid or sell to the grid. Safety and performance standards (i.e., UL1741) are very tight for grid interaction. Most generators cannot meet these requirements, so the G-I inverters typically do not work well with most generators. There are a few reports that some inverter-based generators from Honda and Yamaha seem to work.

    But, OutBack's grid-tie inverter manual (Rev 7.1, page 7) includes this disclaimer: "NOTE: GFX’s do not work with generators at this time."

    If you decide to try the small Honda, you'll need a Mate so that you can reduce the inverter's charge current so that it won't overload the generator.

    HTH,
    JIm / crewzer
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator
    crewzer wrote: »
    Skywlkr,

    But, OutBack's grid-tie inverter manual (Rev 7.1, page 7) includes this disclaimer: "NOTE: GFX’s do not work with generators at this time."

    HTH,
    JIm / crewzer

    Sure they do, Jim ! The generator just has to be huge. Like one of those 10 Mega-Watt or larger kind you find at a hydroelectric dam, gas/coal fire or nuclear plant ! They seem to work fine with those.

    Actually, I remember Robin once saying that somebody called up asking about generators and I ~think~ the GFX/GVFX. He told the guy that generators that work normally come with wheels and handles. The person then asked "Ok, How about I take my little el-cheapo generator and add wheels and handles to it ? "

    boB :D
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #8
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    So if I use a Non-Grid tie inverter ( VFX3524 or the FX2524T) can I set it up to allow full Grid power to pass through for those two rooms/ 4 circuits unless the power fails then switches on automatically? Does it work as a transfer switch if the Genny is setup?

    or does it just receive grid or genny power to only charge the battery?

    If the first option is the winner then I can us the breaker to control when I want the system to receive Grid power to charge, if ever If I worked my numbers corectly, and use the genny to charge when the batts are low and grid is down.

    We loose power for about 6 hours twice a year on average, unless a Hurricane comes through then we may get knocked out for a week +.


    My goals are to:
    A. Have battery back up for my equipment and have internet access as long as possible (at least till the cable company batts run out and a router in our area or down the line drops)

    B. Ease the load from my server and PC's, a fridge and refer on the meter and transfer that to the solar system so I am gaining some use of the system and being a bit green with it even when grid power is up.

    C. Have a Long term Back up system to run the fridge and refer, a couple fans or a SMALL windows A/C and a laptop or two.

    What I have so far is:

    3, 180-190 watts panels with an MX60 (not connected yet), with plans on adding another 3 the first of the year and then 3 more panels next summer.

    A 2 month old, bank of 4 GC batts (no cycles below 24 V yet) with another 4 going in this week.

    I have the bank hooked up to a 24V APC sine wave UPS and been playing with it a bit, running the fridge, refer and the server for a few hours at a time and letting the APC charge the batts (very slow, maybe 4-6 amps).
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    It's good to see that boB has kept his sense of humor despite his long hours in the development lab! :D

    Skywlkr,

    In general, the OutBack non-grid-interactive inverters can be configured as you've described. For example, the HBX mode allows the inverter to power downstream loads from the batteries, but switches the loads to the grid if the battery voltage drops too low. Once the batteries are recharged (via the built-in charger and/or an external source), the inverter drops the grid and once again uses the batteries.

    Take a look at the following OutBack manuals. There's a lot of useful information that addresses your interests:

    http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs_manuals/Americas%20and%20Mobile%20manual%20rev%2072.pdf
    http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs_manuals/Mate%20rev%20230.pdf

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #10
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    It looks like the NON GT is what would better fit me.

    I will just transition off as much as I can off the main grid to the Solar grid (keeping it on the panels charge capabilities) in effort to reduce my grid load as much as possible.

    It also looks like I will need the mate to get HBX and other functions correct?
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #11
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    Another note, I couldn't find this in the manual.

    If I have it on HBX, and the batteries drop below my set point (probably 24.2 for me) and they HBX switches over to grid.

    Is it switching just the charging or will it route power through to the devices?

    What if the grid is down and it tries to get power from the grid?

    Can I set up the genny to start at a lower level at say 23.6V(and then only at certain times?)?

    and then auto shut down from battery at 23.4V if it does not charge?
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Outback Inverter with generator

    Skywlkr,

    If I have it on HBX, and the batteries drop below my set point (probably 24.2 for me) and they HBX switches over to grid.

    Is it switching just the charging or will it route power through to the devices?
    When the inverter connects to the grid, it will both charger the batteries and “pass thru” power to the downstream loads. All subject, of course, to the various current limit setting programmed into the inverter.

    What if the grid is down and it tries to get power from the grid?
    In HBX mode, the inverter will not try to connect to the grid if it senses the grid (or any other external 120 VAC power source) is available.

    Can I set up the genny to start at a lower level at say 23.6V(and then only at certain times?)? and then auto shut down from battery at 23.4V if it does not charge?
    I’m not sure that I understand. However, it seems to me that you could have one “low voltage” setting for the HBX mode, and a second, lower voltage setting for the generator start via the AUX connector.

    Also, note that the inverter/charger has just one AC input connection. If you want to be able to use either the grid or a generator as an AC power source, then you’ll need an external transfer switch. Here's a link to an example of an automatic transfer switch.

    Finally, you might want to visit the OutBack forum for access to the real experts. See: www.outbackpower.com/forum

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
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