MPP SOLAR brand inverter

tanouttanout Posts: 3Registered Users
Have you heard about MPP SOLAR inverter ?
I am curious to know if someone has tested their products

http://www.mppsolar.com/

Comments

  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter

    That much flash menus just about useless on my smart phone.

    Not a good start.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Posts: 1,959Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter

    No UL1741 = No sale in the US
  • RobertMfromLIRobertMfromLI Posts: 34Solar Expert
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter

    I know this is an old thread, but perhaps someone may have some more knowledge to back up or refute the information I'm going to post below.

    From looking at the marketing information being used on eBay and elsewhere for the MPP inverters, they seem to simply be KIPOINT inverters that have been painted yellow. Images match (except the white->yellow), specs match, marketing text matches... oh, and the marketing/info images of the "hookup diagram" shows a white inverter (not to mention it seems to be the same drawing used for the KIPOINT inverters).

    If you search eBay for 8000W inverter 48V you can find both the KIPOINT and MPP inverters and compare them and the info on each.

    That begs the questions (this is an "or" question)
    • Are they the same inverter rebranded (OR)
    • Is the KIPOINT a cheap rip-off of the MPP? (OR)
    • Is it something else entirely?

    Searching these forums will provide a review or two on the KIPOINT inverters (not good). Haven't yet searched elsewhere for reviews - but then again, I am leaning towards a Xantrex XW6048 or two Outback inverters tied together.

    Either way, as the price and output ratings are appealing, it seems to be lacking some features that the Xantrex and Outback lines (and various others) come with.
  • All EnergiesAll Energies Posts: 4Registered Users
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter

    Hello to all there at wind sun,

    I had a customer buy a "MPP solar pip-2424" from a local re-seller who recently bought four of these. 24 volt 2400 watts, pure sine wave, inverter charger with built in 50 amp solar charge controller. I was hired to install this inverters/charger/charge controller and my first impressions were wow this thing is heavy at ~55 lbs maybe it will work great. Well it was all down hill from there.

    So I read in the near useless manual that this thing consumes 3.2 amps @ ~24 volts when on. I could hardly believe that, so I turned it on and put an amp-meter on the input terminal and sure enough it used 3.2 amps @ 25.5 volts. So 81.6 watts just to run a 2400 watt inverter! After this I turned on the green power saver mode which is supposed to idle the inverter @ 12 watts and turn on the inverter with a load greater than 20 watts, this future does not work with a load less than 300 watts as tested and there are no adjustments.

    The built in solar charge controller is not adjustable and is limited to 10 awg wire. Its rated @ 50 amps and has one setting 27.7 volts, there is no bulk, no absorption, and no float. I am not sure how 27.7 volts (2.3 volts per cell) would ever fully charge a lead acid battery. I watched this thing with a meter and it hits 27.7 volts than drops to 26 than back up to 27.7 volts, very primitive.

    My customer was on a small budget and opted to buy this inverter/charger thinking there was an all in one solution. Now he has something that consumes half of the power he will produce per day, doing nothing. It did how ever turn on and produce usable power, it gets a point for that. My advice to anyone considering one of these mpp solar boat anchors, is go with a reputable proven company, with a real 2-5 year warranty. If money is tight buy a good modified sine wave, anything but one of these poorly engineered products.

    I hope this info helps anyone thinking about one of these units.

    Casey
  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter

    Thank you Casey for the information. Hopefully it will help the next guy down the road.

    Much of what we do here is try to stop people from buying hardware until they know what they need first (actually, conservation, then measure/estimate power-energy as the initial steps)--Then start researching the available devices that can meet those, now know, needs

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mattgladmattglad Posts: 3Registered Users
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter
    Hello to all there at wind sun,

    I had a customer buy a "MPP solar pip-2424" from a local re-seller who recently bought four of these. 24 volt 2400 watts, pure sine wave, inverter charger with built in 50 amp solar charge controller. I was hired to install this inverters/charger/charge controller and my first impressions were wow this thing is heavy at ~55 lbs maybe it will work great. Well it was all down hill from there.

    So I read in the near useless manual that this thing consumes 3.2 amps @ ~24 volts when on. I could hardly believe that, so I turned it on and put an amp-meter on the input terminal and sure enough it used 3.2 amps @ 25.5 volts. So 81.6 watts just to run a 2400 watt inverter! After this I turned on the green power saver mode which is supposed to idle the inverter @ 12 watts and turn on the inverter with a load greater than 20 watts, this future does not work with a load less than 300 watts as tested and there are no adjustments.

    The built in solar charge controller is not adjustable and is limited to 10 awg wire. Its rated @ 50 amps and has one setting 27.7 volts, there is no bulk, no absorption, and no float. I am not sure how 27.7 volts (2.3 volts per cell) would ever fully charge a lead acid battery. I watched this thing with a meter and it hits 27.7 volts than drops to 26 than back up to 27.7 volts, very primitive.

    My customer was on a small budget and opted to buy this inverter/charger thinking there was an all in one solution. Now he has something that consumes half of the power he will produce per day, doing nothing. It did how ever turn on and produce usable power, it gets a point for that. My advice to anyone considering one of these mpp solar boat anchors, is go with a reputable proven company, with a real 2-5 year warranty. If money is tight buy a good modified sine wave, anything but one of these poorly engineered products.

    I hope this info helps anyone thinking about one of these units.

    Casey

    Hi Casey

    I have been testing these inverters and have found them great! I'm not sure how you tested the device but here are my observation (Electronic Engineering background)
    I have connected up a watt meter to the DC side and a kill a watt meter on the AC side. I also set the unit so the display was delayed to turned off and tested when off, the unit was not in UPS mode which may use more power. I noticed the fans would kick in at 300watt off load.

    The units are designed in the following ways
    Power save - Is for no load, for example a motor which turn on every now and again
    Normal mode - A constant load big or small, the load will be using much of energy produced.

    In power saving mode (Should be called load sensing) I measure 17 watts pulsing on/off so appeared to be in manufactures spec.
    The unit was turned on at approx. 120 watts tested with a variable speed motor. The unit would go back to power save mode between 50 - 60 watts of load.

    In Normal mode - I measured around 26-28 watts of power my meter seemed to start off at 2 watts even when the inverter was off. The reading also seemed acceptable.

    I did not test the charger but it did give some voltages for the charging in the manual which seemed to align up with the battery manufactures recommendations.
    Not sure if you meter was effected by the PWM
    The charger will also use some power to charge, I would use a mppt to get back the power used. MPP solar also do a mppt inverter or you could use a dedicated charge controller (I use Morningstar)

    For the price I don't think you can beat these inverters versus others I have seen ie powerstar w7
    Time will tell I will be posting if the unit does not last!

    Matthew
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter
    mattglad wrote: »
    In power saving mode (Should be called load sensing) I measure 17 watts pulsing on/off so appeared to be in manufactures spec.

    This seems to be way above 12W manufacturer specs. Comparable quality 2500W inverters consume around 15-20W in "on" mode and 5-7W in "sleep" mode.
    mattglad wrote: »
    The unit was turned on at approx. 120 watts tested with a variable speed motor. The unit would go back to power save mode between 50 - 60 watts of load.

    120W for waking up from "sleep" mode is just about as useless as 300W. It'll miss all lights, small fans ...

    So, your findings pretty much confirm what Casey found.
  • mattgladmattglad Posts: 3Registered Users
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    This seems to be way above 12W manufacturer specs. Comparable quality 2500W inverters consume around 15-20W in "on" mode and 5-7W in "sleep" mode.

    Just to re-explain if you have 0 watts for 1 second then you have 17 watts for 1 second then this would be 8.5 watts in "sleep" mode so almost as good as a quality unit.
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    120W for waking up from "sleep" mode is just about as useless as 300W. It'll miss all lights, small fans ...

    So, your findings pretty much confirm what Casey found.

    Hence the reason it should "not" be used in sleep mode if wanting to power small devices try and use some of the 26 watts it is pumping out plenty of devices around the house will have a small drain. I agree it would be nice to have some adjustment of the wake up voltage. Maybe the manufactures can change this.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: MPP SOLAR brand inverter

    When compared to other inverters this "MPP" unit doesn't sound very "great" to me. Certainly not "as good as". Most inverters will use less power in either mode.

    An Outback for example will consume 6 Watts in standby and has a programmable "wake up" level, then uses 20 Watts running.

    Less expensive Samlex inverters also have lower power consumption and a better "wake up" threshold (with limited selections in some).

    The small Morningstar 300 Watt unit uses only 6 Watts running and less than 1 in standby.

    "Averaged" power consumption is meaningless as it assumes equal time of operation in both states.
  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    Hi all, sorry for resurrecting, but I want to hear latest opinions before purchasing. I just could not find another unit with software control, yet accessible. Looking for 24V 2400w version. I appreciate if you can share your experiences with this one.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    OntheWay, I am guessing, but are you out of Turkey/somewhere in Europe?

    Knowing where you are at and what line voltage you need would be a help (120/240 VAC # 60 Hz, vs 230 VAC @ 50 Hz, etc.).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    BB. wrote: »
    OntheWay, I am guessing, but are you out of Turkey/somewhere in Europe?

    Knowing where you are at and what line voltage you need would be a help (120/240 VAC # 60 Hz, vs 230 VAC @ 50 Hz, etc.).

    -Bill

    Hi BB, correct, I am in Turkey, although MPP brand not available here, there are several rebranded OEMs available around. I have a chance to buy 2400w one about $300. I am just assuming they are the same thing with mpp ones. We are 220(230) @50hz.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    To a large degree--You get what you pay for. If you are not too concerned about efficiency (you have lots of DC power available) and if the inverter fails, you can have a spare/wait for a second one--Why not try what you can get cheap.

    However, when you compare a "cheap" MSW (Modified Square Wave) inverter to what is typically used for off grid homes/industrial uses (TSW/PSW true/pure Sine Wave inverters)--You will be paying many times more for the higher end equipment.

    And your loads--Roughly 80% of your AC loads will work fine with MSW inverters.. .However there are 10% or so that will fail soon or over time, or not work correctly on MSW type wave form.

    A $300 USD 2,400 Watt inverter is just not going to compare will with a $1,500 3kWatt PSW type inverter.

    Can you tell us a bit more about your loads? In general, for off grid/solar power, you need to have an accurate measurement of how much power you use per day (Watt*Hours) and your average+peak power (Watts of surge current for starting motors, etc.). You want a "balanced" system--Loads define the battery bank. And the battery bank (to a large degree) defines the charging source(s), and connected equipment.

    Here is a nice article that talks about AC inverters for home use: [h=4]Choosing an Inverter - Home Power Magazine[/h] Also, the more expensive inverters can have lots of features and options that may make things easier for you (internal battery chargers from AC/Generator input, remote on/off, ability to program voltage set points, etc.). It all depends on your needs.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    BB. wrote: »
    To a large degree--You get what you pay for. If you are not too concerned about efficiency (you have lots of DC power available) and if the inverter fails, you can have a spare/wait for a second one--Why not try what you can get cheap.

    However, when you compare a "cheap" MSW (Modified Square Wave) inverter to what is typically used for off grid homes/industrial uses (TSW/PSW true/pure Sine Wave inverters)--You will be paying many times more for the higher end equipment.

    And your loads--Roughly 80% of your AC loads will work fine with MSW inverters.. .However there are 10% or so that will fail soon or over time, or not work correctly on MSW type wave form.

    A $300 USD 2,400 Watt inverter is just not going to compare will with a $1,500 3kWatt PSW type inverter.

    Can you tell us a bit more about your loads? In general, for off grid/solar power, you need to have an accurate measurement of how much power you use per day (Watt*Hours) and your average+peak power (Watts of surge current for starting motors, etc.). You want a "balanced" system--Loads define the battery bank. And the battery bank (to a large degree) defines the charging source(s), and connected equipment.

    Here is a nice article that talks about AC inverters for home use: [h=4]Choosing an Inverter - Home Power Magazine[/h] Also, the more expensive inverters can have lots of features and options that may make things easier for you (internal battery chargers from AC/Generator input, remote on/off, ability to program voltage set points, etc.). It all depends on your needs.

    -Bill

    Hi Bill,

    First, thank you very much for your kind interest to someone at far side of the planet, :D

    May be I am interpreting it incorrectly, or do you mean the one I mentioned is MSW? Actually, its a PSW one. Here is a local web page for an example.

    I made a quick inspection to see what known brands exist in the TR market and they are as follows; Goodwe, Linetech, Cotek, Xantrex, Victron Energy.

    As an example, Xantrex PSW inverter (700 watts, Prowatt SW700) is priced like $450. 1400W version is about $660. Cotek is priced similarly. But as far as I know, there is no software control in any of these entry level PSW inverters.

    For my loads, actually, other then a few energy saving lights here and there (around 100watts max., for all of them), there will be two main targets. One is of course, fridge. Today I received my kill a watt clone and did some measurements. After plugging the fridge to watt meter, it momentarily displayed something like 830watts, then the next measurement was about 190-220watts range, and continued like this, with compressor on.

    The next target is, an aquarium. Its a reef&fish aquarium, and there are limits for the livestock in it. They need to be aerated from time to time, at least. And, do not like low temperatures for longer periods. Here is what it consumes without and with a 300W heater:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFNPXTyUzjw&feature=youtu.be

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo4zW5MdwIg&feature=youtu.be

    Since my sources are simply not enough to feed both targets together, I am planning to switch between these two targets, with help of a switch or another suitable gadget.

    Cant remember if I mentioned I am currently not planning any use of solar panels, just a reservation for future, if I buy the above unit. Mainly it will function as a UPS. And for high standby consumption, since It will be fed by mains, I can turn it on and off, manually, say, once a week, for topping off the batteries, or I can do it with my Bosch C7 charger.

    What I am afraiding is, if quality of unit comes out real bad and quits working without a reason, when needed. Former comments was shocking, therefore I wanted to see some user reviews.


  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    Ok, after searching a bit more, it appears that idle loads of these units are 10-15w / 20-25w / 45-50w for 12 / 24 / 48V models. As far as I understand, idle power consumption continues at same level when unit becomes fully operational. For this, I need to add an additional 20whours to every calculation.

    Specs of the unit says standby power consumption is <2w. I wonder if is it "searching" in this mode, or stay in a deep sleep? I guess its not doing anything at 2w, and needs to be wake up manually to get back to idle/operation??
  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    You need to add 20 WH for every hour of operation--If you run the inverter 24 hours per day:
    • 24 hours * 20 Watts = 480 Watt*Hours per day
    Search mode is when an inverter turns on for 1 cycle every ~1 second. If the load is more than 6 watts of AC load (or whatever that inverter is programmed for), the inverter turns on 100% and stays on until the loads go away (below 6 watts).

    There may also be a remote on/off load--The inverter is off until an external switch (connected to the inverter's control wires) turns on... The inverter may use some smaller amount of power when in "standby".

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    Yes I am thinking on remote switch possibility, too. My main reason to consider this unit is ability to monitor and allows modification of several adjustments. Among these, may be the most important is low voltage cut off. I want to be able to custom adjust LVCO, in order to protect batteries. Although, I am not sure now, whether the unit can actually accomplish what it is promising, there is no UL listing or FCC. This makes the "feature list" questionable, cause no one controls whether this or that feature really exists, or functioning as expected.

    There are two other options in the list, one is Must power brand, 3000K version, which has no UL or FCC, either, AFAIK. Other most expensive one is called Cotek, which is UL listed & FCC approved. I can afford 1500 model, I guess. Of course these two has no LVCO control, no software control.

    Actually, I have a question in this point. With help of a kill a watt unit, I measured my load, in case of shortage, it reaches up to max 1300w, continuous (this is just sum of various measurements of appliances in home). This includes a fridge, which normally consumes about 240w (its counted in 1300w), but momentary compressor startup reaches to 950w, according to kill a watt.

    Looking which way may be wiser to follow. Do not know if this OEM unit can handle the above load or should I decide for other units. I am totally clueless since never met anyone who tested these units before...
  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    Cotek and Samlex are related brands (same company, share rebanded models?). As far as I know (again, not in solar business), either is a pretty decent brand (in general).

    For running a refrigerator, you probably need a minimum of 1,200 to 1,500 Watt inverter. And the Kill-a-Watt is not good at measuring peak loads (it samples something like once per second).

    Modern refrigerators (frost free) can have wildly varying current draw. Typically (in the US), a standard refrigerator draws something like 120 Watts running the compressor, around 900-1000+ Watts during starting, and can draw something like 600 Watts while defrosting (typically twice per day).

    And you are right (sorry to say)--Solar is expensive and if you are the first one in your area to test hardware that is available to you--You might be left holding the bag with something that will not work for your needs. Some inverters are very good at supplying surge current, and others, not so good.

    Unfortunately, the low battery voltage cutoff is of limited use in "saving" your battery bank... Lead Acid batteries have only a moderate connection to operating voltage and state of charge (not too accurate between voltage and state of charge between under load, under charge, and resting votlages). A good place to start is setting the LVCO to around 11.5 volts for a 12 volt battery bank (~22 for 24 volt, 44 volts for 48 volt bank).

    LVCO is really there to protect the inverter from low input voltage. An inverter is a "constant power" device. Power = Voltage * Current.... So, as the DC voltage falls, the DC input current has to rise to keep outputting the same amount of AC power. As the voltage falls ot LVCO setting, it turns off the inverter to prevent it drawing too much DC current and overheating.

    You really need to manage your battery bank so that you don't over discharge your battery bank. Check specific gravity of the electrolyte, watch voltage/loads/charging current. Sometimes a Battery Monitor (Victron is a very nice European brand). However these are not cheap and have their own issues (can drift from measuring "true" state of charge in some conditions).

    Your chances of success are increased with use of higher quality (and cost) equipment--But certainly not guaranteed. And there is lower cost products that may meet your needs--The problem is finding them.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    Well, first, very interesting info on LVCO. I was always thinking only othe battery side, thanks for the light up.

    Then, only good measure I can think of is measuring total amperes consumed, but not sure whether its possible to count the amperes pulled. I saw something named "watt's up" (or branded as turnigy or GT power), which is doing this, but this time, its cable thickness is far below our needs to sit between inverter and batteries (wonder how they can declare 130A for these gadgets).

    Finally, I made a decision. Since I failed to find out someone around to see the inverter in action, played my last card and called a technical service, who is advertising their expertise on repairs of inverters in web, in some other city. Asked about most reliable entry level inverters in the market. They started to describe me the features and reliability of an inverter which as I understood soon, is a mpp solar clone. Since I did not directly tell them that I need an inverter, what they told me is more or less convincing. This includes a stress test, They said that 4000W (possibly resistive) load applied to 2400W / 24V version of the unit, no problems, and during this load, they shorted the AC side to see how it will react. They say after fixing the breaker, everything was ok and unit is still working somewhere, no problems. Since I am not going to apply such high loads, the evidence they provided seemed ok to me to try it, in the end, 300 bucks, not expensive.

    So, my decision is buying this mpp unit, but not alone :) As indicated by many experts, parallel connection of batteries is not a good idea and buying two very large capacity batteries is not quite safe for me, therefore I decided to use best of both worlds. I will first buy mpp clone with a couple of batteries. Then will add a Cotek one, connected to fridge only, possibly 1000W version, with another set of battery pair. No parallel connections, no single and expensive unit risk, individual units connected to different loads decreases the failure chances due to overloads, and even if they fail, the units will be cheap enough to fix or, just buy another, same applies to batteries, too.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    You are correct... The Watts UP and clones are not good for sustained 130 amps... Probably more like 15-20 amps.

    There are Battery Monitors of various types. Some that use large shunts (100/500 amp shunts) and those that measure battery bus voltage and estimate state of charge that way.

    Good entry level current monitors:

    http://www.solar-electric.com/batteries-meters-accessories/metersmonitors/tr20mosy.html

    Another very good monitor:

    http://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/

    And then there are voltage based monitors:

    MidNite Solar MNBCM Battery Capacity Meter
    http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/smartgauge.html

    And many Solar Charge Controller (and inverter) companies offer their integrated battery monitors (Midnite, Outback, Magnum, etc.).

    The shunt based monitors can be pretty good--But they also can get out of sync with the battery bank too (various reasons).

    Connecting batteries in parallel. You are always making compromises... Personally, for smaller systems, I like the golf cart 6 volts @ ~200 Amp*Hour batteries. Put two in series for 12 volts. Put 1 to 3 strings in parallel.

    If you have to go larger than that, then you need to look at other cells... There are 2 volt @ ~600 AH cells that are about the same size as a golf cart battery, and you can put 6 in series for 12 volts, etc...

    And as the battery bank gets larger, then you are usually better off looking at the next step up in voltage (12/24/48 VDC are common "solar voltages"). You can get other voltages (96 volts and above)--But those are usually computer UPS type systems--And then you have to figure out how you are going to charge those "high voltage" battery banks. And, as voltage rises, you have problems finding DC switches/breakers/fuses rated for those higher voltages.

    It can be done--But many times, it is better to go back and look at your electrical loads, and figure out what you can do to reduce them (more efficient appliances, "slow pumping" water, solar thermal for heating/hot water, turning stuff off when not in use, etc.). Conservation is almost always cheaper than building a larger system and generating the power.

    When wiring up your DC side, keeping wires short and heavy is key to supporting larger AC inverter loads... Remember, for example 1 amp @ 240 VAC becomes ~20 amps @ 12 VDC (power = Voltage * Current).

    The recommendation for ~3 maximum parallel strings of batteries is my personal recommendation. There are people that do more than 3 strings (because they have too--limitations on what batteries they can buy/carry/etc.) and it does work.

    Having lots of parallel strings: Batteries do not like to share current very well... You need to get a DC current clamp DMM so you can ensure that each string is carrying (roughly) its share of discharge/charge current (check for corroded wires, dirty/loose connections, open/shorted battery cells). Also, it becomes a real pain to check water level in dozens and dozens of cells. Few large cells are easier.

    And there is the protection of short circuits... Not a lot of people put a fuse/breaker per string (3 or more strings should have protection). Cost and difficulty wiring makes it difficult (I recommend, not kidding, that you have a pair of heavy bolt cutters and/or a fire ax so you can cut cables to the batteries if there is a short circuit--I have seen small battery banks short circuit and it is a bad feeling watching the wiring glowing red hot and you cannot do anything about it).

    Some people like two parallel strings of batteries.... If one cell/battery/string fails, they still have the second to get by with until they can get repairs made.

    There is one nice fuse block that can mount directly on a battery terminal or bus bar connection:

    https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/Fuse_Blocks/Terminal_Fuse_Blocks

    These holders (you have to buy fuses separately) make paralleling battery strings much easier and safer (than no fuses at all).

    https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/Fuse_Blocks/Terminal_Fuse_Blocks (one and two fuse blocks)

    Attachment not found.

    You have to choose what will work best for you.

    I recommend one larger battery bank rather than two or small/separate systems. You can connect multiple chargers and AC inverters to one battery bank (with correct wiring and breakers/fuses).

    And here is a web page on paralleling battery strings:

    http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • OntheWayOntheWay Posts: 33Solar Expert
    Bill thank you so much, this is a lot of effort, I believe many people can benefit from the above info. Since I am planning to put equipment inside home (there is balcony, but no idea how to keep dust (a lot) away, plus winter temps are always below zero celcius, so..), any safety measure counts for me, I was thinking the same, on how remove cables in case of short, never thought of axe, a good idea, indeed. I will throughly investigate the equipment above, before energize anything I receive.
  • Doctor DieselDoctor Diesel Posts: 1Registered Users
    I have just found this forum and thread, I am using MPP inverters, I started off with one pip 4840 and now have a pair in parallel supplying 8 kva single phase, and three wired as three phase that run machine tools when needed. I got them to replace a xantrex sw3048 which was a great inverter when it worked, but was unreliable and very hard to source parts in UK. I considered outback, but their user interface seemed very counter intuitive to me, and every little item was an extra. So far I have been very pleased with mpp, I used the money that I saved over buying outback or xantrex to buy extra solar panels (more than mitigating the higher idling power consumption) and a new (second hand) car. I have heard of one mpp inverter failing, it was left over winter in a very damp outhouse, it was switched off and I guess must have been very wet when the owner switched it back on....mine have had no problems and at the price seem like very good value, the only slight problem I have found is that the three phase set up needs a very big battery, or they tend to trip on low voltage when a large load is switched on, I got around this by using a common battery for single and three phase, and charging this using the single phase inverters before switching three phase on.
  • sridharTSsridharTS Posts: 33Registered Users
    How you will wire the panel battery and this mpp solar invertre.In this there is no need of charger controller since it is inbuilt.

  • BB.BB. Posts: 28,061Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    Sridhar,

    Please post all of your questions in your own thread. if you have questions about a specific brand/model of product, put a link to that product in your post.

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/350008/wire-sizing#latest

    There are a lot of different products at MPP... And I am not sure which one you are asking about (I am not sure that MPP has a combination AC inverter+DC solar charge controller model at this time--At least I did not see one at a quick glance).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • sridharTSsridharTS Posts: 33Registered Users
    we can see the in MPP solar inverters

  • MPPSolarsupportSucksMPPSolarsupportSucks Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited March 2016 #27
    Regarding MPP Solar support:

    We bought a number of these inverters: PIP 3048MS, PIP2424MS and PIP 812HS

    We have tested them, and here are our findings:

    At first glance they look quite good, and seem to perform reasonably well. But with some noticable hickups.

    First of all they show low load levels (below app. 100W) as no load at all, which is not impressive.

    Secondly they have no temperature control on the batteries, causing incorrect charge voltage levels when the weather conditions change from +25 degrees celsius in the summer to -5 degrees celsius in the winter (and sometimes even during 24hours), which is a very common here in Europe. This caused 4 pcs 12V/150Ah VARTA Deepcycle AGM batteries totally damaged after only 1 year of operation. 
    (You should always maintain lead battery temperature below +25 degress celsius to extend battery life, but that's another story).

    Thirdly there is no softstart circuit for the battery connection, so when you hook up the batteries, you get a tremendous spark from charging up the internal capasitors. The batteries don't mind this, but for sure it is not good for the internal capasitors to be started up with such high current levels filling them up, and might be the reason why one of the units have already given up after only 6 months of operation ?!?

    Forthly (can you say that?) which is by far the worst, there is absolutely no product support what-so-ever after expiration of the first year after purchase. No schematics are provided, no Fault finding guides, no Hotline support, Nothing, except a proposal to buy a new one instead !?! (Yeah, sure you would opt for buying a new one, after experiencing such poor level of support...I think NOT). They even have the nerve to distrust the information you provide so much, that they insist you photograph the serial number plate, rather than just reading off the serial number from the label. and providing date of purchase.

    For products like these, which are bought to use green energy and reduce energy costs and resuorces, having to buy a new one every time there is a fault after 1 year of purchase, or having to replace batteries at accelerated intervals, does not save neither money nor resources, it only creates endless frustrations. 1 year of warranty on such products is also far too short. Professional manufacturers of inverters provide at least 2 years, and more often 5-6 years of warranty!

    There is a saying that goes: "Long after the savings on a product purchase is forgotten, the problems from such savings contiues endlessly"

    If someone out there have obtained schematics for these units, please make them available via a link in this forum.

    If others have had similar experience please let us hear of them.

    Best regards,
    A very disappointed former reseller of MPPSolar products.
  • mattgladmattglad Posts: 3Registered Users
    Sounds like you had a bad experience with MPP solar, just to let you know MPP solar are not the manifacure of these units. They are just another re-seller which explains why there support is so so bad.

    If your connecting the inverter best to wire up the inverter with it turned off then flick the breaker. No Sparks!
  • badinverterbadinverter Posts: 1Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    Terrible product and support, from the retailer seller and manufacture. 
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