QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

Audiomaker · February 2015

Ok, maybe I'm just clueless but on my last two inverter charger systems (with Xanbus in my case), I can't figure out a good "quiet time" strategy.

Here's why...

The Automatic Generator Start is triggered by voltages, loads...etc., and the system allows you to specify a generator no-run time period.

What it doesn't do as far as I can tell, is to *force* a charge cycle prior to this "Quiet time". In real world practice, my bank will only allow me 8-10hrs of usage on a full charge, but there is nothing that I can see that insures you are fully charged prior to this blackout (noise-out).

So did I miss something, or did Xantrex miss something here? I would have expected another SCP option in there like "Force charge X hours prior to Quiet time", or "Force charge if under X volts @ X hours prior to quiet time", or "Force charge for AVG charge time prior to quiet time".

I've just found myself doing it manually (if I remember).

This is my high tech routine:

"<Yawn> ...starting to feel sleepy... better kick on the generator one last time".

Even for people who unlike me aren't in a mobile situation, it would be nice to have a fully charged bank prior to any quiet time unless you really have confidence that your bank could handle whatever you might want to do at *any* SOC.

So,

A. how do people handle this (do others do the <yawn> sleepy time thing too?).

B. How does one get a message to Xantrex to include some functionality in their next firmware (and wouldn't it be nice to have "Dear Xantrex/Outback/etc forums"?)

C. Aside from quiet time, is anyone doing some sort of automatic generator run time scheduling for other reasons...what and how?

Curious

Sean

gww1 · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

Outback does have a forum but I very seldom see a tech person answer. Do they monitor content, I couldn't say.

http://outbackpower.com/forum/index.php?sid=2f1ec936ec7eb584c9f67f32b723e85a

I only mention this in case you didn't know.
gww

westbranch · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

the only forum I know of that is monitored by the engineers and owner is MidNIte... oh, and Rogue but I don't think he has a forum...

Blackcherry04 · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

Audiomaker wrote: »

A. how do people handle this (do others do the <yawn> sleepy time thing too?).

Curious
Sean

Sounds like a good place for Artificial Intelligence.

Generally if your off grid you do a energy audit early in the evening. You look at your SOC and the current weather and what you expect for the next day. You can forget getting to 100% soc daily ( it's not necessary ), you operate in the 85% to 50% range and go to 100% once a week to every 10 days. So within that 35% of capacity you have to have enough storage capacity to get you through your longest period. If it's from 11:00 pm and say 8:00 am ( quite time ) then your charge time and scheme has match the capacity you need. If it's 200 amp hrs from a Honda EU 2000 in 4 hours or a hour from a 20KW generator it's your choice.

Your also learn that it's a lot easier to start your generator and make maximum use of pass through and charging at the same time then to run it to just charge.

There is no reason you can't put a relay timer in your generator start circuit to run the generator for some period of time before the Quite time automatically. You could go a step farther and use a battery voltage switch in series and use them together. A step farther with a Battery Monitor you could get another relay output for a SOC trigger and build your own controller.

I have several schemes and controllers I use with a Honda EU where loads will pull in and out a couple of IOTA chargers depending on what I am trying to do and use 2 stage charging capacity. The ECO throttle is easy to pull in manually with a relay when starting a compressor load, where you'd usually get a fault for instance.

I'd suggest you look at the amp hrs your consuming ( back ground and parasitic ) and account for everyone of them. There is nice to have and have to have. Anything you don't have to produce is a plus, it doesn't mean you have to live like a hermit, just use them as smart as you can. Sometimes it's just a power bar for your TV and Satellite box so you can shut them down so the don't draw power 24/7.

.

Audiomaker · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

Sounds like a good place for Artificial Intelligence.

Generally if your off grid you do a energy audit early in the evening. You look at your SOC and the current weather and what you expect for the next day. You can forget getting to 100% soc daily ( it's not necessary ), you operate in the 85% to 50% range and go to 100% once a week to every 10 days. So within that 35% of capacity you have to have enough storage capacity to get you through your longest period. If it's from 11:00 pm and say 8:00 am ( quite time ) then your charge time and scheme has match the capacity you need. If it's 200 amp hrs from a Honda EU 2000 in 4 hours or a hour from a 20KW generator it's your choice.

Your also learn that it's a lot easier to start your generator and make maximum use of pass through and charging at the same time then to run it to just charge.

There is no reason you can't put a relay timer in your generator start circuit to run the generator for some period of time before the Quite time automatically. You could go a step farther and use a battery voltage switch in series and use them together. A step farther with a Battery Monitor you could get another relay output for a SOC trigger and build your own controller.

I have several schemes and controllers I use with a Honda EU where loads will pull in and out a couple of IOTA chargers depending on what I am trying to do and use 2 stage charging capacity. The ECO throttle is easy to pull in manually with a relay when starting a compressor load, where you'd usually get a fault for instance.

I'd suggest you look at the amp hrs your consuming ( back ground and parasitic ) and account for everyone of them. There is nice to have and have to have. Anything you don't have to produce is a plus, it doesn't mean you have to live like a hermit, just use them as smart as you can. Sometimes it's just a power bar for your TV and Satellite box so you can shut them down so the don't draw power 24/7.

.

I agree with all of that.

The thing is, that there are banks that can store enough power to hold a wedding reception during "quiet time", then there are banks that can store enough power to just make it through.

The key is the difference in reserve power *below* the SOC that you would normally charge at. Maybe in a very large bank, you could go into quiet time right as coincidentally the bank would have kicked on the AGS, and still make it.
For us poorer folks, if my bank isn't charged, I won't get through the night (which is my quiet time) before the inverter would need to shut down due to low DC voltage. Hence, the need to charge prior to this.

It just seemed Xantrex (in my case) missed this idea, and it would be nice if they could at least write in a rudimentary pre-quite-time "boost". I included the "Dear Xantrex" line in the title as I don't know how I would get such a suggestion to anyone at Xantrex who was more than a phone operator, and I would imagine other brands are the same.

As to the rest, yes... there are ways around it. The AGS has several trigger points for things like thermostats and manual switches that could be utilized to create your own timer. Of course one could time directly at the generator and the charger will still charge (although it would show an error for starting the generator manually).

I was hoping in this thread that either I'd discover the obvious thing I missed about programming my system, or that I'd hear creative ways that people have put their generators on timers for different reasons. With my luck, all I'll hear is how everyone else's banks are sized never to need to worry about it

gww1 · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

There is a guy on the outback forum that lives in a place that only has a comunity generator that runs 4 hour in the morning and 4 hours at night and he wanted to know how to program his outback inverters to run only during the non generator times. And another one wants to program his outback to quit using the grid when the sun comes out. I have not seen an answer given to either of those post and both will probly have to get a timer or something external to get anywhere close to being able to do what they wan't.

I did read another poster that wanted to use his outback inverter to run differrent programs during differrent times that were in conflict with each other. His answer was to get a thing called watt-plot a co campanion computer intigrated program. He loves it. However you don't have outback.

The other problim may be that for watt-plot there might be like a monthly fee although it might only be a one time fee. Plus you pretty much have to dedicate a computer to the system. I personally like the more low tech solutions if they can be made or had. Blackcherry quoted a phrase the other day along the lines of "need is the mother of invention".

When you wan't to do things that are more then what is normally done most companies don't design for it till it becomes a wide spread want of lots of people. When I saw your post I thought about mentioning the above guys wants but then thought there were no answers there (sorta like my post here) So the closest I can come is to ask, does your inverter have a computer intigrated after market program along the lines like watt-plott for outback?
Good luck
gww

Audiomaker · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

gww,

The Xantrex system as it comes has no computer interface, just a "system control panel" that gives you setup options on a little LCD.

I don't mind making custom stuff, I just felt that including a "quiet time" block in it's features without including a pre-quiet-time "boost" was ommitting something important.

Look at it this way, if I have to get up and start the generator manually to insure I have enough reserve to get through the quiet block, then I might as well just start the quiet block manually too because more or less....you have to be around.
It sort of defeats the purpose unless one has a bank so large that it can be near it's recharge voltage trigger (which won't trigger during QT) and still power through the night.

Blackcherry04 · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

What voltage level or SOC do you have to be at to make it through the night ?? Maybe your bank is to small for what your trying to do.

I think I saw you have a XW-6048 ?? The last firmware update was like in 2006, don't hold your breath. They do have the Combox now with a computer interface, I don't think you can write your own program for it.

Audiomaker · February 2015

Re: QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

What voltage level or SOC do you have to be at to make it through the night ?? Maybe your bank is to small for what your trying to do.

I think I saw you have a XW-6048 ?? The last firmware update was like in 2006, don't hold your breath. They do have the Combox now with a computer interface, I don't think you can write your own program for it.

You are correct, my bank is too small (200ah @ 48v). I'm new here so I haven't had time to get my signature in order.

That said though, consider a large bank...

Even if it ran for 3 days of autonomy and was at it's SOC that would trigger an automatic generator start, when it was going to do so is kind of random based on whatever power you used to get it to that stage.

Take that bank and pretend it's going to start a generator charge cycle @ midnight (just by chance), but if you have QT enabled at 11pm, it won't, so it will go into a deeper DOD until QT is over and it is allowed to start the generator again.
If you have a larger bank and don't mind going deeper DOD once in awhile, this is fine. If you have a smaller bank, it either won't make it, or won't allow you to do incidental (non minimum) stuff during that time (like make toast)...

ALL OF WHICH would have been solved if the Automatic Generator Start manufacturer had written in a conditional start based on the QT start period (be it time, or voltage dependent, or as you've stated...both).

Just seemed like such an easy thing to do that I guessed was overlooked. Being that I always assume that my ignorance is usually the issue, I thought maybe I'd missed something that people do which would make such an obvious feature to omit pointless.

QUIET TIME ( AGS scheduling and Dear Xantrex)

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