220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

So, I purchased two (2) 300 watts MorningStar SureSine PSW inverters to take back with me to Cambodia. They are wired for 220vac / 50hz.

Now, I am looking for a couple of GFCI receptacles that will work with them. (Finding GFCIs, is all but unheard of in Cambodia.)

Does anyone know where I may find these in the US? I mean, some company must sell them, I would imagine, no?

My alternative is to buy them in Australia / New Zealand and have them shipped to Cambodia after I return.

Ideas? Input?

Thanks, guys.
Paul

Comments

  • ILFEILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    Anyone have some input here?
    Paul
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    Yes.

    1). Why buy GFCI at all? It's more trouble than it's worth.

    2). Work around: buy US version GFCI outlets and use the protected wiring connections to hook up standard 230 VAC outlets for your plug type. Block off the US outlet holes with safety caps to avoid accidents.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,485 admin
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    I am not sure I would run a 120 VAC GFI on a 230 VAC circuit... Some have LED's, and there may be some electronics in the outlet that will die at 230 VAC.

    If you do not ground bond the neutral for the MorningStar--It has a floating output. Which means that you cannot get a "hot to ground" shock as there is no return current path on the AC side of the inverter (floating AC output). You may get a little "bite" because of capacitive coupling (don't know, just guessing), but I would not expect it.

    Here is one company that cells them in the US (I think):

    http://internationalconfig.com/icc6.asp?item=72300-D

    Note--For European GFI (Ground Fault Interrupters)--Instead search for "230 VAC RCD outlet" (something along the lines of residual current device) which seems to be the "overseas" term. I did not find any "230 VAC GFI" outlets.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    Yes the LED's (if equipped) would probably pop.

    But I really wouldn't bother using GFCI on a 300 Watt 230 VAC inverter. At <2 Amps it may not even register any difference, or worse might false trip repeatedly. Not sure what the current difference detection ratio is.

    One thing is for sure: the GFCI breakers would be no good! 10X the price and no use for the extremely low current involved.

    Probably the inverter would fault before anything else happened.
  • ILFEILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.
    Why buy GFCI at all? It's more trouble than it's worth.

    While I realize the chance of being shocked is nil, I guess I have just learned to err on the side of caution, having lived in SE Asia for such a long time. I have seen people needlessly die because they didn't have ample protection against electricity.

    BB. wrote: »
    I am not sure I would run a 120 VAC GFI on a 230 VAC circuit.

    I would never do that, for sure.

    BB. wrote: »
    If you do not ground bond the neutral for the MorningStar--It has a floating output. Which means that you cannot get a "hot to ground" shock as there is no return current path on the AC side of the inverter (floating AC output). You may get a little "bite" because of capacitive coupling (don't know, just guessing), but I would not expect it.

    So, it isn't that important that I bond the neutral AC wire to the earth ground, as I have shown below? MorningStar, I believe, suggests wiring it as I have in my modification of their image.

    Attachment not found.

    BB. wrote: »
    Here is one company that cells them in the US (I think):

    http://internationalconfig.com/icc6.asp?item=72300-D

    Note--For European GFI (Ground Fault Interrupters)--Instead search for "230 VAC RCD outlet" (something along the lines of residual current device) which seems to be the "overseas" term. I did not find any "230 VAC GFI" outlets.

    Thanks for the information.

    Yes the LED's (if equipped) would probably pop.

    But I really wouldn't bother using GFCI on a 300 Watt 230 VAC inverter. At <2 Amps it may not even register any difference, or worse might false trip repeatedly. Not sure what the current difference detection ratio is.

    One thing is for sure: the GFCI breakers would be no good! 10X the price and no use for the extremely low current involved.

    Probably the inverter would fault before anything else happened.

    Well, I will defer to more knowledgeable members.
    Paul
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,485 admin
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    In theory--approximately 0.01 amps delivered "just right" (or just wrong) is enough to cause your heart problems. AC GFI/RFD can stop that nicely. So can "floating" your AC output (like many TSW inverters do).

    Your drawing for the neutral bonding is fine. And, in theory, your 12 negative should be ground bonded too (assuming you want a DC/AC ground referenced system).

    If there is no metal around (plastic plumbing, plastic sinks, plastic electrical fixtures/devices, etc.)--Then ground bonding is sort of superfluous. (If you are running tube florescent fixtures and/or auto ignition (spark) propane devices/stoves--Ground+Neutral bonding can be required for reliable operation).

    If you have chance of direct/nearby lighting strikes--Ground bonding and surge suppressors (Midnite units are very nice) would be worth thinking about. Don't want to bring the lighting energy into the residence/work area. Can help protect AC inverters and DC charge controllers too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ILFEILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.
    BB. wrote: »
    In theory--approximately 0.01 amps delivered "just right" (or just wrong) is enough to cause your heart problems. AC GFI/RFD can stop that nicely. So can "floating" your AC output (like many TSW inverters do).

    Your drawing for the neutral bonding is fine. And, in theory, your 12 negative should be ground bonded too (assuming you want a DC/AC ground referenced system).

    If there is no metal around (plastic plumbing, plastic sinks, plastic electrical fixtures/devices, etc.)--Then ground bonding is sort of superfluous. (If you are running tube florescent fixtures and/or auto ignition (spark) propane devices/stoves--Ground+Neutral bonding can be required for reliable operation).

    If you have chance of direct/nearby lighting strikes--Ground bonding and surge suppressors (Midnite units are very nice) would be worth thinking about. Don't want to bring the lighting energy into the residence/work area. Can help protect AC inverters and DC charge controllers too.

    The water lines are PVC. I use rain water harvesting, as no utilities - power, water, cable television, almost no cell service, are available at the farm. Haven't seen a lightening strike in that area - ever. Heat lightening in the distance is as close as I have seen.

    The only earth ground in the area is my solar array. I have 2 - three meter length (~10 feet) ground rods. Unfortunately, they are now under concrete and are not accessible. (I tried to explain not to do that when they poured the concrete pad for the rainwater storage tanks. But, that fell on deaf ears.)

    So, What should I do for appropriate grounding of the inverters? Pound another (or two) ground rod in and bond the inverters to it?
    Paul
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,485 admin
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    Your choice... A 10' copper ground rod may have as high as 25 Ohm resistance to the soil.

    About all a ground rod will do is dissipate a little bit of static electricity (usually a rare event in a humid environment). No lighting--Ground Rod is not going to do much for you.

    Of course, 1,000,000 volts across 25 Ohms is a bit more current--And if you ever do get a direct strike--It can be a life/equipment saver.

    As in my area--We have a few lightning storms every decade or so--And mostly it it hits the power line/trees/hills in the area. Have not worried about it for my home either.

    Don't have a good answer--Other than the risk is probably very low, so why waste the money on grounding rod... :confused: If you are building for 50 years in the future (kids, etc.)--Then good practice is never "wrong" and could save generations later.

    But, realistically, if an off grid system lasts 10-20+ years without major changes/going away/etc... I would be surprised.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ILFEILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    Thank you for the input.

    Truly appreciated.
    Paul
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.

    Do you have some MN SPD's on that middle system, it seems to have the expensive stuff being powered>>??
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
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    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • ILFEILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: 220vac / 50hz GFCI receptacles.
    westbranch wrote: »
    Do you have some MN SPD's on that middle system, it seems to have the expensive stuff being powered>>??

    No. In fact, I was on the phone with them earlier today, regarding that very topic.
    Paul
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