Used Hanwha 305 panels?

Options
retep
retep Registered Users Posts: 9
Hello. I have the option tomorrow of acquiring 4-6 used Hanwha 305 panels for installation on the roof of a Greyhound size bus (an 84 Wanderlodge PT40 for you RV types) for $125 a piece (0.41 a watt). Are there any problems with these panels that I should know about?
The bus owner already has 6 golf cart batteries at 12V, a MidNite Classic Lite 150 controller, a Trimetric 2030-RV monitor with a 500 amp shunt, a 60 amp air conditioning type fused disconnect, a Xantrex Freedom 458- 2500 watt modified waveinverter/charger, and a Xantrex ProSine 1800 sine inverter. We probably need to stay at 12V because of the RV systems and the Detroit Diesel's 1000 amp starter (not running through the shunt). She runs a smaller efficient 110v fridge, convection oven, computer, fans, led lights, occasional espresso maker, and hopes to not ever again run the Perkins 12500 watt diesel genset. Unfortunately, the Trimetric is not yet installed to produce real numbers, But she is expecting 4 panels mounted flat above the roof. Tilting and lowering for driving is probably a younger person's game.
Does it look like this will all work together? What am I missing?
Thank you so much for helping a slightly overwhelmed newbie.

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    Welcome to the forum retep!

    About your battery bank, you have one bank for both vehicle and RV (House) power? That is a bit unusual--Generally having a separate vehicle battery bank allows you to still start the battery if the house bank was taken dead/very low. And many larger "bus" type applications use 24 volts for the vehicle battery.

    Second, do you have a power estimate for all your house loads? That sounds like a lot of power from a, relatively small, battery bank.

    Anyway--Some numbers (assuming you want to do dry camping and live near full time off grid and don't drive it "that much"--i.e., many days/week+ between trips--mostly solar power).

    The battery bank, maximum discharge to 50% (for long life and so you can, hopefully, start your vehicle motor). Assuming 12 volt battery bank, that should be around 660 AH at 12 volts. 25% to 50% discharge per day (for an off grid cabin, we would recommend around 25% discharge per day, 2 days of storage, to 50% maximum discharge):
    • 660 AH * 12 volts * 0.85 inverter eff * 0.25 discharge = 1,683 WH of 120 VAC power per day
    • 660 AH * 12 volts * 0.85 inverter eff * 0.50 discharge = 3,366 WH of 120 VAC power per day
    Next, we size the solar array two different ways... First based on battery bank size, second based on loads (and amount of sun in your area).

    Based on battery bank size, 5% to 13% rate of charge. 5% is good for weekend systems, 10% or more for full time off grid systems:
    • 660 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.05 rate of charge = 621 Watt array minimum
    • 660 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.10 rate of charge =1,243 Watt array nominal
    • 660 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.13 rate of charge = 1,616 Watt array "cost effective" maximim
    Then there is solar paneling based on your loads... From the "backwards battery calculations (assuming in winter you would use genset, are in a relatively sunny are of the US, 4.0 hours minimum average sun per day):
    • 1,683 WH per day * 1/0.52 end to end system eff * 1/4.0 hours of sun per day = 809 Watt array minimum
    • 3,366 WH per day * 1/0.52 end to end system eff * 1/4.0 hours of sun per day = 1,618 Watt array minimum
    Note that solar panels in the US southwest can be mounted flat to roof in the summer for pretty good power collection. However, go north/winter operation, you may need to tilt the panels to 45 degrees or more vertical for winter operation. Note--In bad weather areas (coastal fog/marine layer, winter), you may get 2 hours of sun per day or less.

    The 12.5 kWatt genset--Probably 2-3x the size that I would need to run my whole home. You might want to look at a smaller genset (4kWatt or smaller)--Conservation is going to be your friend here.

    Simimlar with your 2.5 kW and 1.8 kW inverters--Practically speaking, that battery bank is really only capable of running the 1.8 kW Xantrex Prosine at full power. Anymore than that, the battery bank (as currently configured) would not be able to supply any more power reliably.

    I would suggest that you size the loads (and your expectations) to run from the 1.8 kWatt inverter only. Everything else would need to run from the genset/shore power.

    Will stop here... Lots of numbers and assumptions. And enough information to move the discussion forward.

    Questions/updates to my guesses?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • retep
    retep Registered Users Posts: 9
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    Thank You Bill!
    Yes, it's one battery bank, 6 golf carts, yes it's 12v. I could split off 2 of the golf cart batteries for the starter and leave 4 for the house. Any more would have to be relocated to a bay 10' away or more. She does now have a Costco 2000w inverter genset (Chinese with Chinese made Yamaha Engine- even the Honda's now have made in China stickers) and has run solely off that successfully. She is looking forward to the day that she can remove the 1000lb Perkins/Kohler genset from the nose of her bus and put in something smaller and lighter, then there might be room for a second battery bank to keep the weight on the front wheels even, and split the solar panels. Until the Trimetric is installed, it would be hard to have any real usage numbers, I had a Kill-A-Watt on the fridge, but she moved it to the oven without understanding how to get all the information off of it. She is hoping to get as much solar as she can fit, use the genset sparingly, and learn to live within her energy budget. A bit backwards, but space is limited, and her needs will vary with season and location. Yes Dry-camping.
    Meanwhile, I have this option tomorrow to get 6 Hanwha 305 watt, 5 year old panels for $125 each. Are these OK panels? Any problems I should know about?
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    DO you have a clamp on DC ammeter? I would short each panel out in full sun and check to see what they output. OR assuming they are 35+ volt panels you might try just using a multimeter DC amps, but that is getting pretty close the 10 amp max most of them will directly measure.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    I don't have anything to say about the panels...

    As Dave said, do a Voc/Isc (open circuit voltage, and short circuit current test--80% chance the panels are fine. Voc should be pretty close to name plate rating in any sort of sunlight. Isc will be based on amount of sun hitting the panel. In general, the panel should be 50% to 100% of Isc in full noon time sun and reasonably clear weather).

    Compare Isc (same sun/orientation) between the panels--Should all be pretty close together. Look for "burned/brown" brown spots under the glass (discolored cells are sometimes indicative of problems).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • retep
    retep Registered Users Posts: 9
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    Brand new clamp on DC meter- they've gotten so cheap. Short the 2 leads from the panel and hope for ISC (8.85 amps from one source, 7.18 from another,) he said some of the panels still have their stickers. Vmax is either 36.3 or 32.9v depending on the source, I get to see the sticker tomorrow.
    Full sun- not a chance- thick clouds for a few days here in Dallas. My guess at this point is to expect maybe 3-4 amps? And I'll be looking for any variance between the panels. Right?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    Yep... You got it. Isc is pretty much proportional to the amount of sunlight hitting the panel. In heavy overcast, you can easily be in the 5% to 50% range.

    And if you have MC4 connectors... Cover or point the panel away from the sun when making/breaking the plug connectors. They are not designed to be connected with current flowing (arcing can damage the pins/sockets).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • retep
    retep Registered Users Posts: 9
    Options
    Re: Used Hanwha 305 panels?

    Groovy! Thank you all.