connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

conny123 · November 2014

Hello,
I am new to this forum. I live in Europe (Portugal), but I hope you will answer my question anyhow. I do not know much about electricity, so I hope you could give an answer in simple language.
I have recently installed 3 solarword 270 w panels, inverter gfx 1312e and controller flexmax 60 of outback. Also a flexware surge protector.
Everything works fine, but now the winter is coming and some days there is no sun. For this purpose I bought a Honda 1.0 eu generator. An electrician did the wiring to the inverter and everything worked fine (just tested a few minutes). But now when I need it, when I start the generator, the led of the status goes blinking yellow, next it goes to stable yellow and next to red. Is there anyone who can tell me what goes wrong. I do not have a Mate.
Thanks for your answer.
conny

Blackcherry04 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Do you have the ECO throttle on or off on the Generator ?? My guess is that once the Inverter qualifies the input it makes the transfer to the generator and is overloaded with the Default settings in the Inverter and it faults ( red light ). Without the Mate you cannot change the settings. If you could borrow a Mate you could change the settings. You'll need to change the Inverter Input ( ACin ) and charger amps. The charger is 70 amp DC output ( default ), more than your generator can support without any loads.

You could try to turn the ECO throttle off on the Generator and remove all the loads and it might start the charger, I doubt it.

conny123 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Thanks for your answer. I tried it with the Eco throttle off, but the result is the same. I do not think that I could borrow a Mate, but wouldn't it be necessary to change the output every time I would use the generator, and put it back afterwards?

Blackcherry04 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

conny123 wrote: »

Thanks for your answer. I tried it with the Eco throttle off, but the result is the same. I do not think that I could borrow a Mate, but wouldn't it be necessary to change the output every time I would use the generator, and put it back afterwards?

The inverter has two choices depending on what input you want to use Grid or Gen and you can have different settings for each one. Then you just choose the one you want to use. You do need the Mate to do this.

Call Outback Customer Service, they may have a refurbished Mate they will sell you at a big discount.

ADDED :

Having a Mate really would work out for you. With a Mate you could take advantage of the " Generator Support " function, with the generator size you have it would allow you to handle much larger loads by combining the generator output with the Inverters output for a much larger capacity. That alone is worth much more than the cost of the Mate.
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westbranch · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Alternatively a Honda 20i is a proper match for you inverter/charger... rated for 1600W 13.3A continuous...

Blackcherry04 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Yeah, 900 watts is skimpy, It'll be impossible to get it to work without being able to get the settings right. We don't know how it will be used, but setting the max ACin amps of 6-7 would be as far as I'd push it continuous. The charger can go from 0 - to the ACin limit, but it'll work best at a couple amps less than the ACin. Since you can make changes real time on the fly with the Mate, you soon find what works best based on the time of day and whats going on with other loads. Turning the ECO throttle on and off if you plan a little, works. The charger can be toggled on/off anytime, I use to think you had to charge fast, setting the charger to the generator run time seems to work fine. The alternative is to use a stand alone charger and just use the generator to charge and forget the pass through.

Again, the Generator Support will help out a whole lot.

conny123 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Hello and thank you all for answering. I do not have a lot of knowlegde about electricity so I hope I understood things right. The idea was that if there is no sun for a few days, I would start the generator and fill up the the rolls battery of 500 amp. in a few hours. The loads ( I guess this is how much watt or amp is used in the same time) is only a fridge that takes about 1 kw every 24 hours. It would also be possible to put this off, so that the generator would only have to charge the battery.
I now begin to think that I bought the wrong generator. If I can only load with 6 or 7 amp, it would be better to connect the generator directly to the battery (the honda generator is also inverter). That will give me 8 amps an hour. I thought the 1000 w generator would give me about 50 amp an hour. In the manual I see that the size of the generator should be twice the wattage of the inverter (which is 1300). So, instead of buying a mate and a new generator, I think I go for a separate charger that will fill my battery with 25 amps an hour.
That would be much cheaper.

Cariboocoot · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

The DC output on those little generators is pretty much useless. You're being confused by the difference in 12 Volt output and 230 Volt output.

I'm not certain of the Euro version specs, but the small Honda can put out about 800 Watts: on 230 VAC that's 3.4 Amps but this is irrelevant to the DC charging rate: 800 Watts @ 12 Volts is about 67 Amps, which is what would be going to the batteries.

NOTE: This is not precise. The actual charge current available depends on the Power Factor (efficiency) of the charger, load demands, and other losses.

For example your refrigerator when running probably uses <200 Watts, which would leave still 600 Watts for charging (roughly 50 Amps @ 12 VDC). PF of the charger, losses, etc. ... you could still have 30 Amps @ 12 Volts available.

Here's a real world example:
I use a 1600 Watt Honda on my system. It has to be derated at this elevation, so there's power loss there. It has 6,000+ hours on it - more loss. I probably have 1400 Watts I can count on.
The Outback inverter I use has a built-in charger and it has a good PF (despite claims to the contrary). It also gives loads priority, meaning it will adjust the charging Amps down to meet load requirements first. Loads lessen; charging current goes back up.
I have the gen max input set to 12 Amps. That's 1440 Watts on 120 VAC.
I have the max charge rate set to 4 Amps AC, about 20 Amps @ 24 VDC. This is plenty for my 232 Amp hour battery bank.
That leaves up to 8 Amps for loads. That's 960 Watts on 120 VAC. Plenty for running most everything including the refrigerator. If not, the charging will reduce and then come back up when the loads are lower.
If the well pump is kicked on it will draw too much and cause the inverter to disconnect from the generator. Once the pump is running the gen can power it and the charger at full capacity.

I hope this will help you understand the relationship between gen capacity, charging needs, and load allowance. Maybe it will just confuse you further.

conny123 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Thanks again.
The honda I have is 1000 watts and almost new. And when I use it (only a few times every winter I hope) I can make sure that there is no other load at that moment.
But let's say its 900 watts. Will that mean a max gen input of 5 amps (900/220vac)?
I must say that I do not understand the relation between this amount and the amount of amps I would get in the battery (you thought it would be about 67 amps).
But I can lent a Mate from the shop where I bought my solar system, so maybe it is enough if I just know how to set the figures. What would be the max. charge rate for me? My Rolls battery has 504 amp hours and 12v.
And will there be other things to change when I have the Mate connected?
I hope I am not asking to much and really appreciate your help.

Cariboocoot · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

From my perspective there are a lot of things that need to be changed from default using the MATE. The current input parameters are just one. You should also set the Absorb Voltage and time, and the Low Voltage Disconnect as well (I prefer it set at nominal system Voltage to prevent discharging below 50%). Personally having the MATE allows you to adjust and re-adjust parameters until you find the ones that work best for you all year 'round.

The charging relationship is fairly straight forward:
1). Maximum input current. This is the current limit of the generator. 1000 Watts @ 230 Volts would be 4.3 Amps (if there are no other derating effects). The generator itself usually is labeled as to the maximum current available on the outlet. My EU2000i says "13 Amps" right on it.

2). Maximum charging current. This is the most you want to go to the batteries. It will be a number less than the maximum input current. Unfortunately it is listed in Amps AC, which is confusing. You have to do a bit of factoring to get it close to the actual DC rate desired. For 230 Volt (Euro standard): 12 Volt system multiply AAC by 20, 24 Volt system multiple AAC by 10, 48 Volt system multiply by 5. This will not be exact, but should be close enough to function.

So if you have a 504 Amp hour 12 Volt battery bank and you want 50 Amps maximum charge current you set the AC charge current (not input current) to 2.5 Amps. This should be close enough for batteries around 500 Amp hours +/- 50 Amp hours. If it doesn't allow 0.5 Amp increments (I can't remember the Euro version settings) 3 Amps would work (about 57 Amps DC).

Blackcherry04 · November 2014

Re: connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

Since I did a " Opps Moment and mixed the amps for ACin on Honda EU 2000, here are the specs on the GFX 1312E. If you don't intend to use the onboard charger it won't mean much, but if you do, here is where you can go. Not much wonder with a 25 amp default that the EU 10I can't qualify on the Inverter.
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Attachment not found.

connecting honda 10i eu to outback gfx1312E

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