New guy from NYC with a few questions and TIA's:)

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Welcome to the forum Andrew.

I think your throwing away money trying to get solar or wind to work in your location.

My hopes are to learn here. I plan on moving to a more solar friendly location in the next few years.

Solar panels aren't very efficient to begin with, but yours aren't even pointed directly at the sun which will greatly decrease their output. Before you could have enough PV to recharge those huge battery banks you will run out of terrace space.

For example: 400 Watts of PV on an MPPT controller and a 12 Volt system should be capable of 25 Amps of current. You are seeing about 1/10 that. This is definitely due to the lack of direct sun.

Can you use mirrors? Mirrors don't reflect 100%, and the angle would have to change repeatedly throughout the day in order to keep the sun pointed to the panels. An expensive experiment without much hope for success, I'm afraid.

50 Watt vertical wind turbine: even under the best of circumstances these are not efficient. The vertical design even worse than horizontal because half the energy is lost turning the blades back into the wind. Out on the terrace ... is there really a 20 mph steady breeze through there? It would be very unpleasant living space if there were, and you won't realize much power if there isn't.

In short, you can't harvest power that isn't there and for you there's no power to harvest.

OUCH. I no I no pipe dream...

So let's look at the problem differently: you want back-up power for outages. A generator is usually the best bet, but that's probably out of the question on the 19th floor (gasoline and such).

I have a Yamaha 2000. I am looking into converting this to a propane system with a 20 gallon tank. I feel a lot safer with that sitting on a terrace.

You have 1150 Amp hours (12 Volt?) and 900 Amp hours (12 Volt?) of battery. If these are 12 Volt banks you'd be better off reconfiguring them to higher Voltage, lower current. Improves efficiency and makes current handling easier. The first bank would be 6.9 kW hours of stored power which is massive really. It would also require 115 Amps of charge current or about 1800 Watts of PVin direct sun to recharge. See the problem?

So your suggesting that I convert my battery banks over to 48 volts as well as the panels?


Chances are your batteries are already sulphated from insufficient charging.

I was looking at the BLS battery saver to combat this issue. One for each bank.



Reduce the power need would be the first step. Figure out the minimum amount of power you need on hand to see you through the emergencies (length and frequency come into play). Batteries are going to die over time whether they are used or not, even if charged properly. Keeping a large bank viable "just in case" is money down the tubes if the outages don't justify the investment.

Investment already made...

So let's say you've worked out how much power you need. Size the battery bank accordingly. Example: need 2 kW hours per day for 4 days = 8 kW hours stored energy. That's 334 Amp hours @ 48 Volts. Notice the change in Voltage: charging now requires 34 Amps, which is easier to deal with than 115. A nice inverter-charger will keep them up when you have grid and supply AC when you don't.

Which inverter-charger would you recommend? Can you recommend a site that explains this a little better. I'm ignorate:)

AGM batteries are more resistant to self-discharge so will last "in storage" longer. But they are more expensive and harder to check.

That's a start on it.

BB. wrote: »

I would be surprised if your building would allow a genset or a BBQ on a balcony.

Doesn't allow, but were talking emergency.

And I would be very afraid of getting CO (carbon monoxide) into your neighbors' (and your) units. If it was not "illegal" in my building, I would work to make it illegal.

CO would be ventilated outside???

Between CO and fire issues (propane tanks get hot and vent, liquid fuel spills) and lack of ability to fight a fire ~200+ feet up a building during a power failure... I would not do it.

Did the building have emergency power after the storm (elevators, local water pressure, etc.)? Can't imagine 19 flights of stairs are much fun after a few days of outages (carrying food+water+waste, etc.).

NONE WHATSOEVER. It was very bad particularly for the seniors. It felt like Katrina. No foresight. No help

If the building is a condo--Perhaps wiring up for low power LED lighting, reviewing amount of stored fuel on hand, ability to manage flooding (much of building support is in basement--did it flood/at risk of flood?) all are big issues.

If you where going to "camp" in the unit. Then you can look at very small/efficient DC lighting. Even small flashlights that can last for days to weeks at low power output on a pair of CR123 or AA batteries would be a big help (just keep a brick of batteries for use in lights, small radio, etc.).

Naw need creature comforts. Real lighting. Small tv. Etc

http://www.foursevens.com/products/flashlights/Pro (2x AA flashlight and 2x CR123A flashlight)

https://www.foursevens.com/manuals/Manual_Quark%20Pro%20Series_20120323.pdf

"low" is enough to walk around and read something (very bright moon light)... The high is pretty much like a hand held spot light with 1-2 hours of run time.

For cooking--The "solution" for marine use was alcohol. Common, clean burning fuel (still recommend a battery powered CO and Smoke detectors) fuel, that also can be put out with plain water (gasoline, kerosene, etc. all float on water).

Today--A large apartment building/condo is not a great shelter in place if there is loss of power/water.

Ideally, you want to find a place that you can shelter in place for 3 days minimum. I try for 2 weeks at my home minimum.

-Bill

BB. wrote: »

Problem with CO is you don't know where it is going (or even if it is being generated without testing/monitoring the equipment).

You vent it outside your unit, the exhaust rises or blows against the building, and into a nearby unit (who also has their windows open because they need ventilation too).

If you where running a smokey/diesel genset, they would notice and say something. You run a quiet/clean burning genset, they may not notice the problem until it is too late. People are poisoned by Genset CO emissions quite often. It is hard to justify the risks.

-Bill