Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

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Zakarume
Zakarume Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
I completed getting my 4 x 6 volt Trojan T-105 batteries today. I have them wired in series for a 24v system. I am just waiting on new wire and 24v inverter to come in. Once done i can finish this project. Then i can take the 12v inverter i am using and install in my pop up camper along with 200 watts of solar and be good there
1460 Watts Solar @24v. 675 AH Battery Bank using 12 6v Trojan T-105. 1 Midnite Classic 150. 1500 Watt 24v Samlex Pure Sine Inverter

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  • coominya
    coominya Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    Hi. What are you installing the 24V system in? A home, a cabin, a shed? And what will you be poweing off it? I am quite new to fixed setups and am curious as to what people are doing with small systems like you have described. If you have revieled this on another thread then point me there please.
    Frank.
  • Zakarume
    Zakarume Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    I have it setup in my Mobile Home. All i am going to power is my Computer, Monitor, speakers, recharging cell phone and car alarm, 1 light (occasionally) and fan in summer time. If i am not powering those will power a TV. Will also be used in backup in case of power loss. This will not be a big system and going to 24v is a little cheaper on wires.
    1460 Watts Solar @24v. 675 AH Battery Bank using 12 6v Trojan T-105. 1 Midnite Classic 150. 1500 Watt 24v Samlex Pure Sine Inverter
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system
    Zakarume wrote: »
    Will be used in backup in case of power loss.

    And what will the system be expected to power, and for how long during power outages? What do you have to recharge the batteries if the outage lasts several days ?
  • Zakarume
    Zakarume Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    You give me the money and i will get a bigger system. I can only afford to get with what i got. I dont have the money for what you got. So keep your comments to yourself and think about other people who dont have thousands of dollars to spend
    1460 Watts Solar @24v. 675 AH Battery Bank using 12 6v Trojan T-105. 1 Midnite Classic 150. 1500 Watt 24v Samlex Pure Sine Inverter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    Z,

    I am not sure what got you upset?

    In any case, what we try to do is balance needs against the battery bank, and charging source(s) against the battery bank too.

    Batteries that do not have sufficient charging sources and/or more loads than charging energy available will tend to die much sooner.

    And, if you have a few days of outage, and no backup charging source (solar, genset, etc.), then the batteries sulfate--And again, may last weeks to a few months.

    For solar power, the recommended solar array would be around:

    225 AH battery bank * 29 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.05 rate of charge = 423 Watt array minimum
    225 AH battery bank * 29 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.10 rate of charge = 847 Watt array nominal
    225 AH battery bank * 29 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.13 rate of charge = 1,102 Watt array "cost effective" maximum

    400 Watt array is just on the bottom edge of what we would recommend for an emergency backup system/weekend/seasonal use system.

    Similar questions about an AC genset. A small(er) genset with AC battery charger in the:

    225 Amps * 5% = 11 amp @ 24 volt charger
    225 Amps * 20% = 45 amp @ 24 volt charger

    The 5% to 10% charger would work with a smaller (2 kWatt) or so genset. A larger charger would need a larger generator (and more fuel) to keep the battery bank up in longer outages.

    Power wise, if you assume 2 days of storage and 50% maximum discharge over 5 hours of discharge per day (or per evening) from your battery bank:

    225 AH * 24 volts * 1/2 day storage * 0.50 max discharge * 0.85 inverter eff * 1/5 hours per evening usage = ~230 Watt load over 5 hours per day usage.

    And, if you have a 400 Watt array and using Springfield MO for PV Watts (fixed array, tilted to latitude):




    Month
    Solar Radiation
    (kWh/m2/day)


    1
    3.93


    2
    4.20


    3
    5.18


    4
    5.54


    5
    5.71


    6
    5.80


    7
    5.92


    8
    5.99


    9
    5.44


    10
    4.95


    11
    3.83


    12
    3.29


    Year
    4.99




    Assuming something like 4 hours minimum of sun:

    400 Watt array * 4 hours of sun * 0.52 system eff = 832 Watt*Hours of "useful" power per average "winterish" day.

    So, depending on weather and time of year you get your outages--You could use some generator run time to make best use of your battery bank (another ~400 Watts of panels may be a good tradeoff against buying a genset+gasoline)... Of course, no sun, no solar power, so a genset is needed if you need power during poor weather.

    Does this look like the system you envision?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • coominya
    coominya Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system
    Zakarume wrote: »
    I have it setup in my Mobile Home. All i am going to power is my Computer, Monitor, speakers, recharging cell phone and car alarm, 1 light (occasionally) and fan in summer time. If i am not powering those will power a TV. Will also be used in backup in case of power loss. This will not be a big system and going to 24v is a little cheaper on wires.

    Well that sounds like a reasonable load. I don't particularly like the idea of having to power down because the sun hasn't shined for a few days myself, I am working on a system to power lights, fans, and a few small tools in a shipping container and am making a small 12V generator just in case! I have a new 70Amp alternator I picked up for $10 at a thrift shop and an old honda 5.5 HP motor as well as a nice tubular box frame I scrounged up to mount it all in. But That's an easy setup to leave in a 40 foot container, you would be limited in space and would need a much smaller backup generator I would guess.

    At the moment I have a toyota poptop camper with panels on the roof and if I need to I could just run the engine for 20 minutes on hi idle to charge the house batteries or take a run to the local town and back. Haven't had to resort to that yet though thankfully, I don't live in it, it is just a getaway vehicle and now a home base up on a small property where I'm building a weekender.

    Look forward to more updates on your system. BTW, do you have a watt meter? Or is your regulator doing all that?
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system
    Zakarume wrote: »
    I completed getting my 4 x 6 volt Trojan T-105 batteries today. I have them wired in series for a 24v system. I am just waiting on new wire and 24v inverter to come in. Once done i can finish this project.

    We usually advise that batteries be the last item to purchase. To be more specific, don't purchase ANYTHING until the entire system is designed on paper.

    Then purchase and install everything but the batteries. Make sure you have a generator ready. Make sure you have an hydrometer. Then buy the batteries. Commission the batteries. Use the generator, if necessary to commission the batteries.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • coominya
    coominya Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    In theory at least. I have been waiting 2 weeks now for the delivery of a 125Ah replacement for my camper, should have ordered it a few weeks before I moved out the old ones it's replacing to put in my container! Now I have to rely on the starter battery for lighting and I can't use my radios except in the day time when the sun is shining.

    For a big home system with a roof load of panels and a shed full of batteries it would make perfect sense to buy the batteries last, but like me Zakarume is just building up a small mobile system. If worse comes to worse he can charge the batteries off mains or his vehicle and leave them sit. They wont degrade sitting around fully charged for a week or so. I have a big 200Ah flooded that has been sitting around for a couple of years now, I bought it new and then changed to AGM for my camper after only a month of using it. I charge it every week and run it down 5% or so every month. It's still in top shape, I just have to find an application for it.
  • jvanhare
    jvanhare Registered Users Posts: 5
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    Do you have two sets of panels wired in series connected to each other with branch connectors in parallel or did you just plug the positive and negative wires together all the way down the line with a positive wire off the first panel and a negative wire off the last panel running to your charge controller? I started with the exact setup you have and plugging them all in series is wrong for a PWM controller.
  • jvanhare
    jvanhare Registered Users Posts: 5
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system
    Zakarume wrote: »
    I completed getting my 4 x 6 volt Trojan T-105 batteries today. I have them wired in series for a 24v system. I am just waiting on new wire and 24v inverter to come in. Once done i can finish this project. Then i can take the 12v inverter i am using and install in my pop up camper along with 200 watts of solar and be good there
    You will need a charge controller and battery for your pop up camper as well.
  • Zakarume
    Zakarume Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
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    Re: Step 1 Done converting to 24v system

    I have 4 100 Watt panels. I have 2 wired in series for a 24v panels. I have the other 2 done the same. I then ran the wires to a combiner box. I attached the wires to circuit breaker(2 Circuit Breakers being used). I then ran the wire from box to the charge controller (PWM). When i get a MPPT Charge Controller then i will take the PWM charge controller and that will be used in the camper
    1460 Watts Solar @24v. 675 AH Battery Bank using 12 6v Trojan T-105. 1 Midnite Classic 150. 1500 Watt 24v Samlex Pure Sine Inverter