230 volt

ws9876 · August 2014

I thought that the Euro uses 230v which would have 1 hot and 1 ground ,no neutral. Someone said I was wrong.
I thought that they didnt bother to have 2 phases....yes or no??

Cariboocoot · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

Okay there's really no such thing as "two phase" power. The North American standard is single phase 240 VAC 60 Hz which is "split" with a grounded neutral at 1/2 Voltage.

The Euro standard is 230 VAC single phase 50 Hz. They do not use the 1/2 Voltage grounded neutral.

inetdog · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Okay there's really no such thing as "two phase" power. The North American standard is single phase 240 VAC 60 Hz which is "split" with a grounded neutral at 1/2 Voltage.

Nitpick: There was (and still is in a few places) two phase power in the US. It came before three phase, I believe, and consisted of four hot wires plus neutral/grounded conductor with a 90 degree phase shift to successive hot wires.
It was good for high torque motors such as elevator traction motors. By the same logic that 120/240 is called single phase instead of two phase, the above is called two phase rather than four phase.
It is still used in some machinery in NYC, for example, and is now generally derived from three phase using a transformer combination known as the Scott-T.

Trivia: With a three phase motor, any connection of the hot wires to the three motor leads will make the motor rotate. Of the six possible combinations, three will make the motor rotate one way and three will make it rotate the other way.
With a four phase motor, most of the 24 possible wire connections will just make the motor sit there and cook. Four will go one way and four will go the other way.

Cariboocoot · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

There's this word: "context". Look it up.

ws9876 · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

so .....do you think 230 would be good for the US since it uses less wires.ie no neutral..

Cariboocoot · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

ws9876 wrote: »

so .....do you think 230 would be good for the US since it uses less wires.ie no neutral..

No, I don't.
The old argument is "Which way do you want to start the house fire? Arc ignition of loose connections or over-heating through high current?" The high current (NA standard) is easier to deal with. (Witness the current inclusion of arc-fault circuitry for solar arrays and the numerous faults that have resulted.)

The Euro standard is actually a mishmash of old systems pulled together with high-tolerance specifications. Voltage range of -6% to +10% and the 50 Hz frequency.

None of the standards throughout history have been ideal for everything, because that isn't possible. Low frequency results in better PF on induction motors but at a cost of RPM potential. 3-phase practically eliminates motor problems but is unnecessarily complex for standard fixtures such as lighting.

People complain a lot about our grid, but it is amazingly stable and highly functional compared to systems in other parts of the world.

techntrek · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

Plus the NA system gives you the best of both worlds. 120 for lights loads and more safety (residential and offices), plus 208 or 240 for heavier loads.

zoneblue · August 2014

Re: 230 volt

Speaking as someone in a 230V nation, electrical fires are quite common here. I dont know about the stats, whether there is a material difference to 120V or not. Its usually caused by old old wiring, of which there are frightening examples or various grades of rubber and fabric insulation, that date back to WW2 and beyond.

Interestingly everything is pvc here now, conduit, load centers, junction boxes, power outlets, everything. Better insulation, less likely to create arcs and shorts, but with in my view bad consequences if any kind of heat did manage to develop.

OTOH power underground is now std here in urban areas. It was weird to see so many overhead lines in the US last month. Telephone is 100% underground as well.

230 volt

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