whizbang and kids...

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rich
rich Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Hello again All,... Im not quite clear on the application of the whizbang jr.... I want to run two kid c/cs, they will be running through 30 AMP breakers,then both into common busses 1 for each pole, on the negative side can they as a combined pair be run through the shunt .??... Ok,,? so that in-turn will have the whizbang lead(purple) going to the master controller in the master slave configuration as opposed to the "true parallel " which I know they are capable of....So, I guess my question would be, do I need two whizbangs (one for each kid) or will the master slave configuration and 1 whizbang do this.?? Allowing me to monitor the parameters as a whole on the master kid....lol....any of Your great insight would sure be helpfull (and likely more confusing)...lol
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    rich wrote: »
    Hello again All,... Im not quite clear on the application of the whizbang jr.... I want to run two kid c/cs, they will be running through 30 AMP breakers,then both into common busses 1 for each pole, on the negative side can they as a combined pair be run through the shunt .??... Ok,,? so that in-turn will have the whizbang lead(purple) going to the master controller in the master slave configuration as opposed to the "true parallel " which I know they are capable of....So, I guess my question would be, do I need two whizbangs (one for each kid) or will the master slave configuration and 1 whizbang do this.?? Allowing me to monitor the parameters as a whole on the master kid....lol....any of Your great insight would sure be helpfull (and likely more confusing)...lol

    You only need one shunt and whizbang. There's only one battery bank, so you only need one shunt to know how many amphours are going into it and out of it.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • rich
    rich Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    vtmaps wrote: »
    You only need one shunt and whizbang. There's only one battery bank, so you only need one shunt to know how many amphours are going into it and out of it.

    --vtMaps

    Ok thats good to know, no more purchases...to change the subject a little, Im also adding a lightning arrestor question, they will be on PV incoming , THE arrester(2of them) has 3 wires, red, black, green, does the green go to the chassis ground of the kid or directly to the earth dc ground buss?....this covers my PV input, is there any need for some special grounding requirements from the battery bank to the earth ground? something that keeps surge from entering the battery bank through the vehicle if hit by lightning? in this case its a vehicle chassis ground that the b-bank is grounded to.(trailer)
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  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    rich wrote: »
    Ok thats good to know, no more purchases...to change the subject a little, Im also adding a lightning arrestor question, they will be on PV incoming , THE arrester(2of them) has 3 wires, red, black, green, does the green go to the chassis ground of the kid or directly to the earth dc ground buss?....this covers my PV input, is there any need for some special grounding requirements from the battery bank to the earth ground? something that keeps surge from entering the battery bank through the vehicle if hit by lightning? in this case its a vehicle chassis ground that the b-bank is grounded to.(trailer)

    Here is a wiring schematic showing a (SPD) Surge Protection Device (PDF) along with a Kid.
    Here is a wiring schematic showing two Kids wired together (PDF), in case you are interested.
    Paul
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  • rich
    rich Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: whizbang and kids...

    Ok thanks , that is the same diagram I have, my kids will be supplied by two separate arrays, so it will be 1 supressor per kid..?....and bieng that its a vehicle (chassis) ground wouldnt the surge from lightning just come through the battery ground( chassis) and into the electronics?.(its a 24 foot cargo trailer)..is there a choke technique or some other protection for this ground to chassis?,,,sorry to sound like a dummie but Ive had some very close strikes in my time and would not want to damage my equipment, ...Now, my insurance company has informed me there is no insurance for "any" solar equipment in or on my trailer nor against any possabilities of theft, accident or other....so in my mind this "is" a form of insurance and I really want to get it right .again thank-You...
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: whizbang and kids...

    Rich , What is the trailer used for ?
    Construction ? and a power supply ? Trailers / Cars mobile equipment has grounds , but only grounded to the frames since the tires are insulation from the earth ground. You still could get a power potential from the trailer/truck to real earth ground OR even worst , a fuel pump nozzle.
    In Aviation there are always retractable ground reels just for this purpose . Ground out the air-frame before you may open your fuel door / cap , then the fuel hose With the retractable ground and the air-frame SHOULD be the same.
    You might have to think that way.
    On fire trucks they use flying chains if they also have a genny setup for extra lighting . I'll see if I can post up a pix of these things .

    VT
    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.

    These grounding chains are used with cables running in the links for better conductivity .
    The real purposes of these hanging chains are for Snow & Ice , but the the adding of SS cables , the truck frame has a better earth than a bonding /ground wire & clamp to a fire hydrant than could be knocked off in times of hurry.

    Just food for thought
    VT
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  • rich
    rich Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    CDN_VT wrote: »
    Rich , What is the trailer used for ?
    Construction ? and a power supply ? Trailers / Cars mobile equipment has grounds , but only grounded to the frames since the tires are insulation from the earth ground. You still could get a power potential from the trailer/truck to real earth ground OR even worst , a fuel pump nozzle.
    In Aviation there are always retractable ground reels just for this purpose . Ground out the air-frame before you may open your fuel door / cap , then the fuel hose With the retractable ground and the air-frame SHOULD be the same.
    You might have to think that way.
    On fire trucks they use flying chains if they also have a genny setup for extra lighting . I'll see if I can post up a pix of these things .

    VT
    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.

    These grounding chains are used with cables running in the links for better conductivity .
    The real purposes of these hanging chains are for Snow & Ice , but the the adding of SS cables , the truck frame has a better earth than a bonding /ground wire & clamp to a fire hydrant than could be knocked off in times of hurry.

    Just food for thought
    VT

    The chains are a great idea and will be incorporated with the copper wire inter-twined, deployed for parking ...The trailer is a 24 foot tallboy cargo trailer, what started out bieng a modest experiment in self security has now become something far more..full gally kitchen, sleeping loft, 1470 watt solar system, 3 inch foam insulation ,woodstove ,propane demand water and heat.yada-yada....the list goes on....my problem is the kids, the follow me and the lack of understanding of a few key elements, for instance:how do you kno the follow me interaction is taking place?...I see no screen to compliment this and actually let You know whats happening...also I will give two random examples...the wbjr screen on one controller(has the green wire hooked up) will say 1.5 amp.soc 100%
    211 ah remaining.............

    on the other it will simply say, wbjr not connected check wire...do I hook a wire from the shunt to both kid controllers?

    another example is the "hooked up controller", (green wire) will say, 0.0amp float....29.0 volt....solar 0 watts....while the other one(not hooked up to shunt) says 8.2 amps absorb....29.0v.....235 watts, the two kids are both hooked up to 600 watts of panel at slightly different aspects configured in 3 parallel strings of 200 watts each...all settings on both controllers are a mirror image of each other...IM not sure where it even gets 29 v from as I have no settings at that value....seems to me they are not communicating at all ? I used the four wire tele cord as required to connect the two kids , the shunt is flashing as should be ..Im confused to say the least.... :( What am I doing wrong?...I factory reset both kids to no avail...the instructions I have for the wbjr are for connecting to the classic controller so I did the best I can trying to bumble thru it,,,,,,,,sheesh.........any advice would be great....thanks , R.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    rich wrote: »
    ...
    on the other it will simply say, wbjr not connected check wire...do I hook a wire from the shunt to both kid controllers?
    Since the whizbank jr. uses digital communication (and probably a handshake with bidirectional signalling), I do not see that you use one shunt with two controllers any time soon.
    More productive might be to ask if you can let the two CCs share the information themselves, a more useful road given that they are connected to the same battery bank.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: whizbang and kids...

    two kids on one battery bank ?
    Put kids into master slave gang setup & have the WBjr on the master only
    Ganging CC is for only the same bank of one battery setup.
    If you can't figure it out with reading the Kid manual , watch here :
    http://www.midnitesolar.com/videoDisplay.php

    VT
    inetdog wrote: »
    Since the whizbank jr. uses digital communication (and probably a handshake with bidirectional signalling),

    I saw it as LIN with a pico scope
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  • rich
    rich Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: whizbang and kids...

    Not sure what to do now, it says in the booklet that I can use two kids on two separate arrays charging one battery bank,(seems normal to me) it states it needs to be in the follow me mode. With using wbjr would I be expected to zero out the absorb time and let the whizbang determin that?, I feel my problem is in my understanding of the settings and possibly something simple .
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  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    rich wrote: »
    Not sure what to do now, it says in the booklet that I can use two kids on two separate arrays charging one battery bank,(seems normal to me) it states it needs to be in the follow me mode. With using wbjr would I be expected to zero out the absorb time and let the whizbang determin that?, I feel my problem is in my understanding of the settings and possibly something simple .

    I believe you can use up to 12 Kids in Follow Me Mode. Only two, however, can be linked together if you use them in Bully / Wimpy Mode.

    Have you considered asking the staff on the Midnite Forum? Midnite's staff are pretty good about replying to queries.
    Paul
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: whizbang and kids...
    rich wrote: »
    Not sure what to do now, it says in the booklet that I can use two kids on two separate arrays charging one battery bank,(seems normal to me) it states it needs to be in the follow me mode. With using wbjr would I be expected to zero out the absorb time and let the whizbang determin that?, I feel my problem is in my understanding of the settings and possibly something simple .

    http://midniteforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9a7f175d3eca5d5ed13fb6eedfb4ac4c&topic=937.0
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