Greenhouse airlines

read this in a waiting rm recently.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1584796,00.html

I am about to start our planning (and saving) for a mexico trip next winter and would like to find an airline that is into this. Anybody read anything else on the subject? i know theres a london/ny business oriented airline that has vowed carbon neutral operations , but wondering if the mainstream ones are offering this so i can pick them. i did a quick search didnt find anything except articles about the idea of it.

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,639 admin
    Re: Greenhouse airlines

    Regarding the whole premise of carbon trading (to achieve carbon neutrality):

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c07a48b4-b6d9-11db-8bc2-0000779e2340.html
    Billions of dollars are being wasted in the international carbon trading system owing to a loophole in the Kyoto protocol, according to a study to be published on Thursday in the journal Nature.

    A few Chinese factories and carbon traders were making large profits by exploiting the regulations in the protocol surrounding a potent greenhouse gas, HFC-23.

    By installing cheap equipment, the companies could gain “carbon credits” which they could sell for hundreds of millions of dollars.

    According to the study, about €4.6bn ($5.9bn, £3bn) could have been saved through closing this loophole, and instead spending €100m on a simple measure that would eliminate large quantities of the gas.

    My belief is that you would do best to conserve at home, install/use solar (like you probably already are), and enjoy your trip.

    If you feel really bad about the flight--just invest $5-$20 (per CO2 ton--rough estimate--or purely made up numbers--about 1-3 tons of CO2 per passenger seat in your flight--or--2-15 tons of CO2 per coast to coast flight for a 15-100 passenger jet/private jet) in your own landscaping, solar/conservation.

    You can "invest" at www.Carbonfund.org at $5.50 US per metric ton of CO2 (don't know a thing about this .org)--from what I have read in other places--Investing a few hand full of dollars per seat/flight is all the airlines are doing...

    If you feel really bad about the CO2 costs of the flight--go coach instead of business/first class. Less fuel is used to move coach passengers.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,639 admin
    Re: Greenhouse airlines

    Here is an article from the SF Chronicle about Airlines and CO2:

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/14/BUGU9O44EV1.DTL

    Basically, air transport accounts for 2% (or even 1.5% from other articles) of fuel use/CO2 emissions. Because of high fuel costs, airlines have reduced fuel usage to about the minimum possible with current technologies... Some airlines with older fleets are looking to purchase newer (and more fuel efficient) aircraft--but short of something new and wonderful--the airlines and governments seem to have settled on Carbon Trading as their answer to the CO2 problem.

    And frankly, I would rather see you (and me) invest our own money in our own conservations/solar projects than simply writting a check (or paying extra taxes for somebody else to write a check) to some agency/company that may be 1/2 a world away--Like:

    http://www.carbonplanet.com/

    Which is reforesting a plot of land in Australia (not a bad thing) and guarantying that the trees will stand for a minimum of 100 years...

    In any case, you doing the conservation/solar energy thing ensures that oil was never purchased/used... The best carbon credits to is try to mitigate only one aspect of the whole exploration/production/refining/distribution/burning issue.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Greenhouse airlines

    well, you've convinced me my efforts probably do more to offset greenhouse gases than some money spent, but i still like the idea of supporting the effort that they are making.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,639 admin
    Re: Greenhouse airlines

    Matt,

    We have flown a couple times to Asia (now with kids) to visit the "home country" of my wife too. Just enjoy the time at where ever you are going.

    I am pretty much against CO2 offsets (as you can read)... Here is what is happening right now with CO2 offsets:

    Some current news on Carbon Trading:

    http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=columnist_mukherjee&sid=a6JuMPizIG6o
    China, India Smile as West Overpays for Climate:

    Countries that must purchase emission credits to atone for their higher-than-mandated production of carbon dioxide are paying a tiny group of chemical manufacturers in China and India massive sums to reduce industrial gases and methane, which are rather inexpensive to capture and destroy, Wara says. China and India

    The improvement that can be obtained by spending just $31 million on incinerators could cost developed nations as much as 750 million euros ($986 million) through the elaborate trading mechanism of the Kyoto Protocol, and even then only two-thirds of the problem would go away, Wara estimates.

    China and India are getting a prize for producing lots of hydrofluorocarbon-23, one of the six greenhouse gases under the Kyoto Protocol. One ton of it is considered the equivalent of 11,700 tons of carbon dioxide.

    Six Chinese companies have consented to be paid to destroy this toxic byproduct of a gas used as a common refrigerant and a Teflon feedstock. Their total commitment is more than 43 million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent per annum. India, with two registered projects, is second with about 7 million tons. Thus, barely eight chemical plants in China and India control about 44 percent of the existing annual supply of emission credits.

    http://green.itweek.co.uk/2007/02/emission_tradin.html
    Emission trading suffers as carbon prices plummet

    However, speaking to an audience of academics and business leaders at this week's Tyndall Centre conference on investments in low carbon technologies, Professor Catrinus Jepma of the University of Amsterdam warned that both the EU's Emissions Trading Scheme and the UN's Clean Development Mechanism were in danger of failing with prices for the carbon credits used under both schemes predicted to reach just a few cents. "The Stern Report suggests we need a price for a tonne of carbon emissions of $20, rising to $30, $40 or even $50 to stabilise [the level of CO2 in the atmosphere] at manageable levels," he said. "But there is a good chance that the carbon credits that are meant to provide incentives for reducing emissions will be available for next to nothing."

    The problems with the European Trading Scheme are well documented with the collapse in the price of a tonne of carbon dating back to May last year when it emerged that most countries in the scheme had set their carbon caps far too high, resulting in fewer firms than expected having to buy credits and causing the price of a tonne of carbon to plummet from over €30 to less than €10.

    http://www.euets.com/
    Welcome to euets.com - the CO2 exchange for CEE

    euets.com is a fully electronic exchange for anonymous trading on the spot EUA market. euets.com is the only CO2 trading platform designed to give direct access for all operators to the European CO2 market.EUA spot

    Prices on 22.02.2007
    € 0.85 [down] € 0.08

    Personal control of consumption and production of energy (and any grown/manufactured products in general) in an environmentally friendly way is the best way to go.

    Carbon Credits have always looked like the Citizenre "Scam" on another thread here to me (set up with lots of hot air and to support money changing hands with nothing to show for it).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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