Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
Anyone try this stuff for their closed loop systems?

Looking into about 75 gallons for a 140 gallon geothermal project.
Can it be diluted to 25%???
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Comments

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    A general statement: Anti freeze is protection at X * from freezing solid thus destroying/damaging your installation.

    Questions:
    What is the freeze point of the anti-freeze at 25% concentration?
    What temp will your application drop to if not heated for, say, 3 days?
    Would you use something that will freeze if your power/heat goes out for 3 days or more?
     
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  • GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    3 reasons: 2 fireplaces and a backup genny.

    Bought a 50/50 mix just in case.
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  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    I have a new yorker boiler in an out building plumbed through to the house. I use CryoTek mixed 50/50 here and it has always kept it operational. Even when left for a couple days at -30F

    Ryan
  • peakbaggerpeakbagger Solar Expert Posts: 341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    One thing to keep in mind is the viscosity of the stuff goes up significantly as it cools down and there is a good chance that if your circulating pumps will not have enough head to circulate it at low temps. Unless you go with variable speed pumps or at least three speed pumps you will either end up with a oversized pump for normal operation or a undersized pump for cold weather operation.

    My SHW has that problem it has a PV powered DC pump, when its below zero the pump is deadheaded as the viscosity it too high, once it warms up then it starts pumping.

    Crytotek can be diluted and I am sure I have seen tables for the protection levels somewhere on the web.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,923 admin
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    Here is a nice document on using the Cryo-Tek anti-freeze (including concentration vs freezing temperature):

    http://www.oatey.com/doc/cryoteck.pdf
    Test Kits and Accessories
    Freeze protection levels and corrosion protection levels should be checked annually. Use Hercules Refractometer (35290) and pH Meter (35272) or, cryo-tek Test Kit (35271). Add additional cryo-tek product if freeze protection is inadequate. Add cryo-tek Inhibitor (35276) if pH is below 8.5. (see Maintenance, page 4)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    Yes BB. I seen that data sheet.

    My contractor was wanting 25% brine solution. Yet it's not on that chart. Felt skeptical about those results.

    Just got the 75 gallons on Friday. The outside temp was around zero and this stuff seemed very thin undiluted.

    Technically, the heat pump shuts off at about 20 degrees input (if it even gets close to that at end of season). Was told it may get to 40 degrees by end of winter.
    Going to go safe with 50/50 mix and 10 degrees protection.
    On a funny note: Went to Walmart and got 75 gallons of distilled water for the system. The wife was rolling her eyes when told of it. Two shopping carts later and a loaded car full of water on New Years day. The guy who parked next to me commented: "You must have had a lot to drink last night" to re-hydrate. :D

    Next project is to figure out how to properly back fill the slinky lines....Anyone know what the trick to that is ?? Wonder if a layer of sand would seat them properly ?? Everything is 8' down into the water line.
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  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    For heating systems it is recommended to not use more than 30% of of system volume glycol content. All antifreezes affect the heat transfer rate. Cryotek seeps around gaskets, orings, and valve packing. There are better choices, I use Rhomar Rhogard.
    You want to protect down to the burst temperature so your system and piping will not be damaged during an extreme low temp situation.
  • GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    My original request was, will it still work at 25% brine?
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  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze
    My original request was, will it still work at 25% brine?


    Short answer no.
    You need to go to AG (artic grade).
  • GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    Yea. Figures.
    50/50 should b fine.

    Now is there a special way to bury the slinky lines?
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  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    Special not really. The biggest thing I found with buried pipe was to keep it dry so it does not loose its heat. I used to have the slinky pipe but the ground always thawed out there telling me I was loosing heat. I talked to a couple people one of them being a local Spray foam guy that had a lot of wood boiler/solar thermal experience and followed his advice. What I did was use normal PEX tubing and took scraps of foam and taped them between the 2 pipes every 2ft. Then I had the local spray foam guy spray them. He lifted them up and shot under them and then on top of them. I ended up with about 10 inch diameter foam block Maybe more like 8inches tall and 12 wide. I had to go 80 ish feet and this cost me 500 dollars. Here is a link to his site with the pictures. http://www.circledsprayfoam.com/gallery.htm#
  • GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    Mean no disrespect, yet everything points to the opposite of what's suggested. The loop lines need water to transfer heat efficiently, (Advection - Water/Soil), otherwise just conduction/convection.

    The most efficient systems are open well because of the consistent water temps in/out. Specifically, my area has constant water flow (very slow) movement throughout the year. 7 feet down during the summer to early spring the following year. Any other time, higher or ground level water. Am attempting to harness the Advection by laying lines between 7-8' down to have year round efficiency in a horizontal loop system.

    Am getting some 3/32" welding rod to use to bend in a "U" shape so to hold the loop lines down into the water. When the trenches are dug, surely there'll be water at least 7' down, maybe higher. I've bought a 3" motorized water pump to transfer water to the pond. We're having record snow this year. Last year was 8.7", this year so far is 60 !! We need the water and so does the 1/2 acre pond.

    Back on subject: Guess I should do an experiment on the coolant at 50/50 mix and throw in the freezer overnight. Curious to see what kind of consistency it holds. Contractor says he uses this stuff all the time, yet didn't say the mixture ratio. The HP will shut off around 20 degrees inlet. 50/50 mix says protection to 10 degrees. Should be good and won't freeze. Haven't heard any stories about water/water based systems ever reaching this point except inadequate loop fields or something else wrong. An adequate system, I've been told will start the winter season at ground water temp (54 degrees here) and end up around 40 when spring comes along.
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  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze
    Mean no disrespect, yet everything points to the opposite of what's suggested. The loop lines need water to transfer heat efficiently, (Advection - Water/Soil), otherwise just conduction/convection.

    The most efficient systems are open well because of the consistent water temps in/out. Specifically, my area has constant water flow (very slow) movement throughout the year. 7 feet down during the summer to early spring the following year. Any other time, higher or ground level water. Am attempting to harness the Advection by laying lines between 7-8' down to have year round efficiency in a horizontal loop system.

    Am getting some 3/32" welding rod to use to bend in a "U" shape so to hold the loop lines down into the water. When the trenches are dug, surely there'll be water at least 7' down, maybe higher. I've bought a 3" motorized water pump to transfer water to the pond. We're having record snow this year. Last year was 8.7", this year so far is 60 !! We need the water and so does the 1/2 acre pond.

    Back on subject: Guess I should do an experiment on the coolant at 50/50 mix and throw in the freezer overnight. Curious to see what kind of consistency it holds. Contractor says he uses this stuff all the time, yet didn't say the mixture ratio. The HP will shut off around 20 degrees inlet. 50/50 mix says protection to 10 degrees. Should be good and won't freeze. Haven't heard any stories about water/water based systems ever reaching this point except inadequate loop fields or something else wrong. An adequate system, I've been told will start the winter season at ground water temp (54 degrees here) and end up around 40 when spring comes along.

    No special way to bury pipe except to keep large rocks or sharp objects from damaging the loop. As you stated the high water table will give you a Higher heat transfer rate and make the heat pump more efficient by keeping return temps higher. If you can oversize your loop to compensate for any unknown's in the install. Under sized loops are a common problem in geo systems, along with unknown earth conditions that are encountered .
  • GreenPowerManiacGreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cryo-Tek 100 anti-freeze

    Yes. 20% more per loop length. Minimum per ton is 600'. Got 750' per ton.
    Was told to stear clear of more than 800, due to head pressures.
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