Battery FAQ battery bank

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Shadowcatcher
Shadowcatcher Solar Expert Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
I am on a number of RV forums and the depth of ignorance is truly fascinating and seems to be inversely proportional to the cost of the RV. Those with teardrops (many of which built theirs) being most knowledgeable.
One of the types of perennial questions from the big rigs concerns battery banks, and I very often say you need to do your homework and refer them to the W&S battery FAQ page. This is good except for one area and that is mixing batteries in a bank of different ages and capacity. I just found a quote on one marine/boat forum from the folks at Concord/Lifeline that mixing sizes is according to their research is OK, but not age. Does anyone have a good understandable explanation or link to a page that does?
Thanks Tom

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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Battery FAQ battery bank

    I have no clue who the folks at Concord / Lifeline were, but that is total Internet BS. 90 % of what you read out there is either made up or Parroted from one site to another. Tell me how a 100 amp hr battery would have the same discharge capacity as a 300 amp hr battery, the 100 amp hr battery would be dead and gone and the larger one would still have 2/3 rds capacity left. The same goes for charging requirements in reverse. It's a recipe for disaster. Age, the worse that going to happen is the older weaker will drag the new down to their level, in a short amount of time.

    Have I hooked a couple together in float service for the winter where there is no activity ?? Sure I have and have 4-5 that way that right now. This would be a different story. This is not even the smartest thing to do, one goes bad it'll cause a issue for them all. That said, they are in a place they are monitored daily and the charger has a fixed float voltage and limited capacity.

    Oh , by the way, if you read it on a marine / boat forum should tell you that they know probably less that the RV crowd about Batteries. It's good for a Guy like me or wouldn't have a job.

    I have many Battery stories over the years, a couple years ago I go to a guys boat and his battery bank was flatlined. He says he turned the Inverter off for the winter because the year before it used $15.00 of electricity and he thought he'd save some money. I said, you didn't turn off the DC loads and they killed your batteries. he's like yeah, but I saved the $15, $800 later he was still happy he saved $15, go figure.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Battery FAQ battery bank
    I just found a quote on one marine/boat forum from the folks at Concord/Lifeline that mixing sizes is according to their research is OK, but not age. Does anyone have a good understandable explanation

    understandable explanation: they want to sell more batteries. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Battery FAQ battery bank

    It would depend on how far apart the difference in size is. For example pairing 220 Amp hours with 225 Amp hours will not make any noticeable difference over the life of the batteries.

    The greater the difference in capacity, however, the greater the difference in charging profile. The current produced when charging can end up being too much for the smaller battery or too little for the larger one, or even both (mediocre charging of each).

    Notice all the times that multiple parallel battery strings have been advised against around here? This is due to uneven current sharing caused by resistance variations between the individual strings. Putting two quite different batteries in parallel makes a big difference in that string resistance.

    What you can get away with and what is best to do are often not the same. If you're only using a system occasionally and don't mind replacing the batteries every couple of years you can get away with all sorts of things. Around here we try to advise on the basis of daily use and long-term investment.

    I've seen this phenomenon before where the wealthiest people are the most foolish with their money. Perhaps it is because they have so much to throw around. I have a well-off neighbour at the lake who is always buying "bargain" equipment: generators, batteries, inverters, et cetera. He has probably completely replaced his system six times in the past five years. Meanwhile mine was a one-time investment of serious capital, and still works (over the same time period). He doesn't listen to me, btw; he's sure he's doing it cheaper. :roll:
  • Shadowcatcher
    Shadowcatcher Solar Expert Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Battery FAQ battery bank

    My understanding is that it is fairly common to mix sizes on boats, I would assume because of size/location constraints. My view of electric current is the similarity to water, If you have two ponds of unequal size they will self level.

    BUT this does not answer the question I posed, I need a web site or explanation that is easy to understand.

    I btw agree with caraiboocoot, one of the responses given to what do you carry in your tool kit is too often responded to with "a credit card and a cell phone". You have folks with a $200,000 RV's looking for a free place to stay.
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Battery FAQ battery bank
    My understanding is that it is fairly common to mix sizes on boats, I would assume because of size/location constraints. My view of electric current is the similarity to water, If you have two ponds of unequal size they will self level.

    BUT this does not answer the question I posed, I need a web site or explanation that is easy to understand.

    I btw agree with caraiboocoot, one of the responses given to what do you carry in your tool kit is too often responded to with "a credit card and a cell phone". You have folks with a $200,000 RV's looking for a free place to stay.
    The devil is in the details, if your talking about using a smart combiner to charge multipal size batteries off a common source. There plenty of ways to charge at 12 V then combine to 24 V or charge at 24 V then split to 12v. The idea of having a bank of batteries then inserting a battery of different capacity in it is crazy, of course there uninformed people every where. As Coot said 5-10% difference, no big deal. If you want to test it, take your car battery and hook it to your deep cycle battery and see how it does next summer.

    There a few Boat chargers that will also charge 3 different batteries at the same time with different chemistry's, different capacities and different voltage settings at once. I am trying to come up with a reason to have different capacity batteries on a boat that require a bank of different capacities that you'd charge. A Bass Boat might have trolling batteries that might charge with a dc-dc charger from the starting battery and motor. A big boat might have 2 starting batteries for each engine, a battery for the generator, a couple house batteries, a big bank or two for the Inverter systems. generally each one would have their own charging sources. Even with 21 batteries on my boat, there no mixed capacities doing any one thing, except working me to death.

    I'v seen a boat or two in the last 50 years that had a 32 v and a 36 V systems in the day's before the modern diesel, Most of them were pushed off in a hole and burned years ago. Before there were battery started engines, there were gasoline starter engines you hand cranked and started first and then started the diesel main engines with a clutch system.
    .
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Battery FAQ battery bank
    Before there were battery started engines, there were gasoline starter engines you hand cranked and started first and then started the diesel main engines with a clutch system.
    .

    Yup: pony motors. Lots of industrial and agricultural equipment had them as well. Including ones with electric start for the pony; it was hard to get enough power to crank a big ol' diesel from batteries.