Inverter Wiring Schematic

spdas · December 2013

Aloha all. I have been off grid for our company, office, welding and machine, paint shop for 5 years and have been using a particular brand of industrial inverter. For one reason or another I have "popped" 8 of these inverters over the years and need to start repairing them as I am down to the last 2.
Trouble is the manufacturer has been out of business since 1997 (I think) and I cannot find any source for a wiring diagram to repair the inverters.
They are called SuperPower 3600 and are a (modsine) and weigh about 85#. Anyone have a wiring diagram? . Here is a photo of the inverter.

thanks Francis@ContainersHawaii.com

Attachment not found.

niel · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

francis,
why on earth would you want to fix that stuff when you could probably buy more modsine inverters cheaply? not sure why you aren't going with a good sine wave inverter from a good company.

btw i do suspect you overloaded the inverters with loads like those and i'd be curious to ask what the battery bank and charging source(s) (pv, wind, hydro?) would consist of.

Cariboocoot · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

Welcome to the forum.

Eight dead inverters made in 1997. Absolutely a waste of time to repair them. In the past 16 years inverters have improved considerably. You may not even be able to get suitable replacement parts for those old MSW units.

spdas · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

I like these inverters because they are real work horses, hold a good frequency, and handle sudden high amp loads nicely. (welding machines, grinders, chop saws). They never broke when they were used properly. They are 24v and I have a 36v system that I put diverted into them, causing them to pop. Another couple of times my outback fx80's reported that they were running at 26v when really they were still at 38v. Other than that they have been bullet proof.
francis

spdas · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

I bought 14 of them on closeout for $350 each, so not too bad a deal. I also have a sine wave inverter running my computers and server and all electronics in the office. I have 2 other systems running the factory with these inverters. And another inverter running the rec area (1hp pool pump, fridges, etc), and yes I have been off grid for 5+ years, saving $1100 per month electricity.=$72,600.00. I have 95 x 195w pv panels going through 9 outback fx80's. And one of the systems charges an electric car right off the Outback @80v (2 banks equaling 160v for the 26kw car. I am using 10 large 800ah forklift batteries.
Francis

jcheil · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

spdas wrote: »

I like these inverters because they are real work horses, hold a good frequency, and handle sudden high amp loads nicely. (welding machines, grinders, chop saws). They never broke when they were used properly. They are 24v and I have a 36v system that I put diverted into them, causing them to pop. Another couple of times my outback fx80's reported that they were running at 26v when really they were still at 38v. Other than that they have been bullet proof.
francis

8 bad ones in 16 years means you are only getting 2 years out of them. So as far as being a "workhorse" and "bullet proof", I don't see how you could consider those to terms apply with that short of a lifespan. Sure you can kill a brand new $2000 inverter by running the wrong voltage into them, but in reality you could likely get more than 2 years out of even the cheapest MSW inverter you can buy now-a-days for a couple of hundred dollars.

If you seem to have "issues" that destroy them every 2 years, just go buy a bunch of cheap ones and some spares.
Also, how do you manage to run the 24v inverters on a 36v system? Especially ones that large that could be drawing 100+ amps on the 24v side.

spdas · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

jcheil wrote: »

8 bad ones in 16 years means you are only getting 2 years out of them. So as far as being a "workhorse" and "bullet proof", I don't see how you could consider those to terms apply with that short of a lifespan. Sure you can kill a brand new $2000 inverter by running the wrong voltage into them, but in reality you could likely get more than 2 years out of even the cheapest MSW inverter you can buy now-a-days for a couple of hundred dollars.

If you seem to have "issues" that destroy them every 2 years, just go buy a bunch of cheap ones and some spares.
Also, how do you manage to run the 24v inverters on a 36v system? Especially ones that large that could be drawing 100+ amps on the 24v side.

Yeah those inverters would still be working, except for "operator error" such as putting in 36v to the 24 inverter, forgetting to close the inverter cabinet when a rain storm came in, stuff like that.

What brands do you recommend that cost a couple hundred dollars, I may need to change.

Running 36v by mistake through the 24v is THE problem. And twice one of my outbacks stayed on the 38v when I switched over to the 24v system. (the outback reported, "new voltage" but stayed on 38v) After awhile my circuit breakers flipped and disconnected the 24v batteries and the inverter was fed 38v directly from the outback without any battery "buffer" present.

Cariboocoot · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

I'm just saying that it isn't likely you will find either schematic or replacement parts for a 16 year old inverter. As such replacing them would be the more practical solution.

Putting 36 Volts to a 24 Volt inverter should cause it to shut down from over-Voltage, but that would depend on the particular design.

Considering the size equipment you're running off it, I'd be looking at 48 Volt inverters here; cut the current in half for the same output power.

spdas · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

Cariboocoot wrote: »

I'm just saying that it isn't likely you will find either schematic or replacement parts for a 16 year old inverter. As such replacing them would be the more practical solution.

Putting 36 Volts to a 24 Volt inverter should cause it to shut down from over-Voltage, but that would depend on the particular design.

Considering the size equipment you're running off it, I'd be looking at 48 Volt inverters here; cut the current in half for the same output power.

Yup, thats why I posted to see if anyone else may have come across a diagram as I have a friend that will fix them if I get a diagram and a scope.
I wish it did shut off and not smoke. I will be upgrading to 48v sometime in the future, as I agree I need to lower my amps.

My office that has the pure sine inverter is 12v (I bot it 6 years ago before most people did not know what PV was) and it is a bear to charge. The FX80 only can take 1000w until it maxes out at 80 amps and I am charging up 16 400ah Lithium batteries, so need 2xfx80's
Francis

jcheil · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

spdas wrote: »

Yup, thats why I posted to see if anyone else may have come across a diagram as I have a friend that will fix them if I get a diagram and a scope.
I wish it did shut off and not smoke. I will be upgrading to 48v sometime in the future, as I agree I need to lower my amps.

My office that has the pure sine inverter is 12v (I bot it 6 years ago before most people did not know what PV was) and it is a bear to charge. The FX80 only can take 1000w until it maxes out at 80 amps and I am charging up 16 400ah Lithium batteries, so need 2xfx80's
Francis

Just a thought, maybe NOW is the time to start thinking of going up to 48v??
I mean with all the times you had "voltage" issues in the past, etc.

I personally would love to go to 48v and I also use an FM80 but that would mean I would need to (only) change out my inverter and battery charger (and rewire the batteries). But my inverter is fine so I cannot justify it at this point.

** You are in a PERFECT position to do that now since you need to buy a new inverter anyways.

A simple rewire of your batteries (free), buy a new "quality" 48v inverter (that you couldn't overvoltage since you are at the max voltage anyways). You will reduce the current draw on all of your DC wiring, reducing heat and other possible electrical related issues.

Most of the nice PSW inverters can be had with a 5 year warranty when mounted on their backboards (or whatever they call them). The host carries all of the top/reliable brands. And they will be pure since wave inverters which will give you a lot cleaner power.

Just something to think about. If I was in your exact position, I would be jumping on the 48v bandwagon and I will when my inverter finally dies (or I can sell it to someone).

Edit: Oh yeah, and at 48v you can put 5000w of solar panels thru a single FM80 instead of 1000w like you are now.

bill von novak · December 2013

Re: Inverter Wiring Schematic

spdas wrote: »

Yeah those inverters would still be working, except for "operator error" such as putting in 36v to the 24 inverter, forgetting to close the inverter cabinet when a rain storm came in, stuff like that.

Wow. That happened 8 times? As others have mentioned that doesn't sound very reliable. I've mistreated inverters as well and only really blown one. Out of 5 Trace SW inverters - 2 SW5548's, 2 SW4024's and 1 SW2512 - I have only blown one, despite doing some stupid things to them.

Some thoughts:

Odds of getting schematics or service info on a product is proportional to how recently it was built and how popular it was. In this case it sounds like your odds are low - and even if repaired they may have the same problems down the road. Also, getting the schematic does not mean the device will be fixable (although it will help.) Old designs have old components.

You will probably gain reliability, efficiency and device compatibility if you go to a new inverter. Will also be cleaner, so less electrical, acoustic and RF noise. If you go to 48V you can also gain power if you keep DC wiring gauges the same.

Inverter Wiring Schematic

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