battery, your thoughts-help

gww1 · November 2013

I have a new forklift battery as of 9-20-2013. 48 volts-800 amp hour. The sg's where about 1.265 after my first bulk-absorb. I equalized for 5 hours and let sit over night. the sg's where 1.285 and 1.295 on all cells. The first day or two the cells where sitting at 1.250 or lower. Then I put loads on. I was only making about 17 kwh of solar while charging to the manufacterer voltages and the charge controllers would cut the rest. I added a loadshed of hot water and my production is now 29000 to 33000 watts per day on good days. (2000 watts on bad days).

I now don't reach full absorb quite as early as I used to but I did charge once from the grid and ity seemed that the battery was only accepting 2% amp rate at about two hours of absorb. I usually get 2 to three hours of absorb. I removed the battery temp control on advice from the outback tec person due to the fm80 cc stopping voltage climb what seemed to be to low.

I was having to equalize every ten days or so to 1.285 to keep the working sg's above the 1.220 range and with a voltage cut of to quit drawing fro the battery set at 46.8 was getting what I thought was no where near the 20000 watts I thought would bring me to the 50 % discharge rate.

I called the battery retailer and ask for advice. He advised to go by voltage and not sg's. He told me to set my low voltage cutoff to 40.8 volts and to equalize just once a month untill the battery got warm. maby even lower my absorb setting a bit to keep from bubbling the battery. He pointed out I was forming the plates and needed to do this to get good use out of my batteries and run this way I should get 15 years out of them. I equalized one more time and it took me 17 hours over two days to get the sg's right. One month from that will be the 25th of november. Not looking forward to to days of babysitting the battery. My sg's after full days including days with full absorb never bring the sg's above what should be more then 100% discharge. I had mentioned to the manufacter rep about chris olsen raising absorb voltage due to posible shorter hours then you might get with a plug in charger but he thought lower voltages and big equilize was better.

ME, I am just a newby and scared to death I am doing what all newbys do and that I am destroying the battery. I do know for my situation (i just switch night time loads to the grid if I have to restart the equalization prosses the next morning cause it takes 18 hours) I don't lose much. Just 2 nights of running loads. I have enough solar to eq and run loads during the day as long as I don't start with a discharged battery. That would be a lot of gennerator time if I were off grid.

I would like to know what you guys think. I wan't advice, critique, help or anything else you want to throw my way. You can even say my spelling sucks though it would be redundent as I already agree with you.

Thanks
gww

PS I did point out that running the battery that low during no sun might cause the battery to sit discharged a day or two with very little charge current. The battery rep seemed unconcerned and thought I should still follow his advice.

NorthGuy · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Sounds familiar.

What is your absorption voltage, and at what voltage do you equalize?

Cariboocoot · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

You know you need like a 5kW array to max out that FM80 and properly charge an 800 Amp hour 48 Volt battery, right?

I don't think you should draw the batteries below 46 Volts. Certainly not down to 40. 46 is close to 20% SOC which is okay for a forklift battery. But then again I think companies sell batteries with the plates already formed and that SG is a really good indicator of SOC. Cycling the batteries deeply a few times is not unheard of to obtain full capacity.

What are you using for an Absorb Voltage? Should be up around 60 Volts I think.

I would initially avoid using the batteries while charging so that whatever charge power you've got is dedicated to the batteries. This makes it easier to accurately judge End Amps too. Then draw them down with loads and charge again. Repeat.

When in service, keep the Float Voltage up as well: 56 Volts or so.

I'm sure some of the guys using forklift batteries will have a few tips as well.

Blackcherry04 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

I think I agree with your Retailer after just starting with a new set of Surrettes batteries. I saw a chart ( Somewhere ) that showed the cycle life of a Forklift / Industrial Battery. It showed the capacity after the first 200 or so cycles ( 6 months ) going from 50% to 100% based on daily cycles to 80% dod. There is something to the plates forming that makes the capacity go up, along with that capacity gong up the SG's will begin to stabilize and so will the Voltage. Mine have been all over the place. What your going through is the very reason I didn't buy a forklift battery, but I still have issues.

About all you can is hold his foot to the fire on his advise.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

The battery absorb is 57.1 the float (which I don't reach as fast since adding the hot water) is 53.04. The equalize is 61.9. That is as close as I can remember, I have it wrote on the wall above the battery. I charge at absorb 57.8 cause I normally get to 57.2 with the hot water on with right at three hours of sunlight to hold 57.2 or above for a couple of hours. Also even with my efforts to calibrate the cc voltage readings, they show about .2 volts higher then my battery does on the sears clamp meter. I equalize at 62 volts. I ran the battery cuttoff at 48 volts and large loads kicked the inverter off all the time (well pump). I went to the 46.8 and it was better. at the 42volts for six minutes I actually have to hav a bad sun day or two to start dropping the inverters. The batterys don't bubble much at 57.8 and fizz pretty good at 62 but still have quiet spells. They are getting hotter durring normal charging then they did the first two times of eq. Temp on sears clamp meter with lead stuck about a foot down in the corners in the center of the battery pack. As high as 90 degrees now.

Coot
I have 5600 watts hooked up now. Also two turbines but sometimes thats only good for 100 watts. The solar seems to like to run at about 4600 watts though I have seen over the name plate from them. If I am reaching absorb with the loads and still having the cc cut back power do I really gain keeping the loads off during charging. I did charge with the grid and no loads so I could try and get a handle on what was needed. I was getting very low output due to the cc cutting back the pv output till I added the hot water load shed. It did cause absorb to start later buy forcing the voltage a little below absorb but I am still reaching absorb with a couple hours left and still taking shawers and such to keep the solar producing instead of cutting back. By the way I am not arguing cause you have been right everytime even when I didn't listen and found out I was wrong.

North guy, blackcherry and coot
thank you
gww

NorthGuy · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

gww1 wrote: »

The battery absorb is 57.1 the float (which I don't reach as fast since adding the hot water) is 53.04. The equalize is 61.9. That is as close as I can remember, I have it wrote on the wall above the battery. I charge at absorb 57.8 cause I normally get to 57.2 with the hot water on with right at three hours of sunlight to hold 57.2 or above for a couple of hours.

I don't think you have the horrible situation that I had with my batteries.

Your absorb voltage is rather low. The manufacturers usually recommend a range, you might be at the lower and of the range, so you could possibly add a little to it.

More imporatantly, the duration of the absorptions that you have is too short. You need to let it do a longer absorption, for 6 or so hours once in a while. For axample, once a week. Then you can measure SG at the end of it. If it is still far from the specs you may have a problem.

BC04 says that the charging imporoves with time and it did improve a little with his Surrettes, but my batteries haven't improved any for almost the whole year. So, things may or may not change for you.

Cariboocoot · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

The charging process you want to achieve is bring the battery up in Voltage quickly enough that it can be held at the Absorb setting until the charge current diminishes to around 2-3%. If you are tapping power for loads the battery will not receive maximum current and will not charge as quickly.

The Absorb Voltage seems a tad on the low side. I would definitely raise that. You need that bubbling activity to stir the electrolyte. If you can maintain Absorb Voltage with the loads on that's fine, but beware of it dropping below especially in the early part of the Absorb stage when current to batteries is still fairly high. Don't try to substitute EQ for Absorb time.

I would not draw down to 42 Volts, but definitely down to 46. I hate to think how big that well pump is if it can pull an 800 Amp hours battery below 48 Volts even with concurrent loads.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Northguy
I will try and incorperate you an cariboocoots suggestions. I will drop the night time load and run without loads till I reach absorb the next day and see if that adds enough time to possibly get a six hour absorb. I will do that once a week till starting after my next eq on the 25th and then see what happens around x-mas. The manufactuer gave exact cell voltages for each stage of charging and I mutiplied that by 24 the number of cells. I suggested higher absorb and he thought I might be on the high side now and to keep the battery from heat and boiling that lower might extent the battery life and eq once a month. I pointed out the charging pamplet said to eq every 5th charge and you could not fully charge without equalizing. He said that was for fork truck use and not re. I decided to try it but my sgs sliding to zero is scaring the crap out of me. I wanted to try and eq at 59 or 60 volts he liked float voltages for absorb. He was very spicific that I take the batteries to 40.8 and said I could even go lower but that was good enough. I told him that if they went that low it would mean no sun and they may sit there for a day with very low charging. He was unconcerned. So then I ask about eq every two mo insted of one. That did concern him. He said eq no matter how long it takes till the batterys feel warm. He said do this and the batteries should last 15 years.

Thanks for the imput. My absorb may not be long enough but it is hard not trying to use power that is being shaved by the cc's. I will try for a longer absorb 1 time per week.
Thanks
gww

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Coot
The meter reads 2400 watts when the well pump kicks on. It does not last long though. On a strait charge from the grid the 2% amp rate was less then two hours. The battery at a week old was sitting at 50.4 volts when i got it and it seems to like it there. I did a commission charge and eq and have seen it sit higher but eventually it likes 50.4. I am a very slow typer so my responces are very slow.
thanks gww. Be back at 6:00 central time

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

When I go to grid power due to low battery I have it where the batteries start carrying the load again at 55 volts. I got conflicting advice from outback on this as one said 57 and one said 55. I was originally worried about the turbines raising the battery voltage without the inverter cause I have the hot water set to turn on at .5 volts lower then absorb. I realize the turbines will never effect the battery now as we had 50 mph winds and I only made 6000 watt hours with them. I have the cc's set at 57.8 and calabrated so that the fm 80 sits at 57.7 and never reaches absorb because the mx 60 is cutting power first cause it is in absorb. This creates a situation where I never reach float and can only guess how long I have absorbed the battery. The mx60 doesnt have a meter like the fm 80 telling about absorb time only float which I don't read. The battery usually stays between 57.2 to 57.4 durring this period. I hit this at 11 some days, noon lots of days and at one some days. It does get hammered by loads kicking on but usually for less then 5 min. at a time. I can no longer hold absorb at three due to shading. I have it set this way cause the fm 80 goes to zero in absord and the hot water devertion is on it so if I keep it right below the other cc both keep producing as much as I need. I hated only making 17 kwh insted of 30kwh. I don't wan't to ruin the battery though. I have some home made panels that I am thinking of hooking direct to the batteries and face east to get a morning boost.
I don't know if I am rambling or adding to your understanding of what I am working with and thinking.
thanks
gww

NorthGuy · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

gww1 wrote: »

I suggested higher absorb and he thought I might be on the high side now and to keep the battery from heat and boiling that lower might extent the battery life and eq once a month. I pointed out the charging pamplet said to eq every 5th charge and you could not fully charge without equalizing. He said that was for fork truck use and not re. I decided to try it but my sgs sliding to zero is scaring the crap out of me. I wanted to try and eq at 59 or 60 volts he liked float voltages for absorb. He was very spicific that I take the batteries to 40.8 and said I could even go lower but that was good enough. I told him that if they went that low it would mean no sun and they may sit there for a day with very low charging. He was unconcerned. So then I ask about eq every two mo insted of one. That did concern him. He said eq no matter how long it takes till the batterys feel warm. He said do this and the batteries should last 15 years.

You know, I ended up doing very similar thing with my batteries. I do not do absorbs very often, instead they sit on float (same as your absorbs at low voltages), but then I do a long absorb at 64V once a week or so (same as your equalizations).

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

I do wish I would have bought a larger capasity battery cause I can not make the battery last carrying my loads when I have a 4 to 8 kwh solar day. When I had the battery cut out set at 48 volts it would not finnish most nights. I was counting on 20000 watts to 50%. I don't have a pure fix on what loads I actually have hooked up but I am sure it is a lot. I am just watching constantly and trying to math it to an average.
Thanks for the responces.
gww

Cariboocoot · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

You can't make the battery last? Just how massive are these loads?

800 Amp hours of 48 Volt forklift battery can supply about 30kW hours of power. That is a lot of power!

You say you have a 5kW + array, so you should be able to harvest 10kW hours per day minimum on a sunny day. Why are you only getting 4 to 8 kW hours? Do not confuse what goes through a charge controller as being all the power you can get; they only roll up what they are asked to produce. If the battery/loads don't need more then more is not harvested.

But this does look like the classic large system problem; there simply are not enough hours in a day to Bulk and fully Absorb charge a large capacity battery even at a very high charge rate. This is why people end up using generators a lot, and why the first through third rules of off-grid are "conservation".

Blackcherry04 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

See if you understand this. There a couple things going on, one is the Capacity and two is how you charge. If you believe this you could still be building capacity and your batteries cycle life.

Attachment not found.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

coot
I got 26 kwh's yesterday and know the cc cut a minimum of 3000 watts due to nowhere to put it. My highest day is 33 kwh. I constantly run 28 to 30 kwh. During the last month I had one 12kwh, two 3kwh and two 8 kwh production days. luckily a couple of the bad days got a 1000 to 4000 watt boost from the turbins which normally give almost nothing. My original loads seemed to be averaging 600 watts per hour. Since I started heating my house the loads seem to be running about 800 watts an hour average. It seems that the refridgerators or freezer may be running more due to heating the house. These are just educated guess cause sometimes it 0 or 200 watts. I have notice recently it being 700 to 1100 watts in the early morning at times that not much is on. One added thing is for three hours give or take the hot water heater kicks on and thats 2000 watts added. I am living with the system trying to figure it all out. I have the abilitie to adjust and use the grid so I am just trying to get the most of this expensive electric as I can. I always keep my eye on what might be possible if I ever couldn't pay my bills or upset the electric company off or just decided to be independent and go off the grid. Not being grid tied with out a battery makes no finacial sense so I am doing it for the learning and fun but hate making it worse by not doing the most I can with it. The grid is my generator and I will use it if needed but am trying to learn just what I have and can do with out it. I am not conserving as I would have to if I actually had to live off it. In fact, I am taking showers and washing clothes and watering gardens in the middle of the day so I can use more rather then having it just dissapear. I will not do these things or run loads some of the time if I need to so my battery doesn't die early. I am trying to get what I can and learn.
Thanks
gww

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

coot

But this does look like the classic large system problem; there simply are not enough hours in a day to Bulk and fully Absorb charge a large capacity battery even at a very high charge rate.

Am I correct that some poeple midigate the above problim by basicly makeing the absorb voltage very close to what would normaly be eq voltage?
At what price?
Thanks
gww

Blackcherry04
Thanks for the post. That is somewhat comforting. My three biggest fears are that a fully discharged battery can be ruined instantly, a sitting low battery should not sit long and batteries can be ruined by overcharging IE: 18 hour eq or high absorb voltages. Lastly it is hard to know what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. Sitting at super low sg's scares the P. out of me.
Thanks
gww

Cariboocoot · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

gww1 wrote: »

coot
Am I correct that some poeple midigate the above problim by basicly makeing the absorb voltage very close to what would normaly be eq voltage?
At what price?
Thanks
gww

Mitigating the problem is usually done by raising the charge rate to the maximum the battery will take in order to get enough Absorb time in the daylight available. As the battery capacity increases, this becomes a diminishing return scenario because even if you could push 50% charge rate the battery wouldn't like it.

The Absorb Voltage and the Absorb Time are not really coefficients; you can't trade one for the other. Likewise using EQ to bring the battery up to a higher Voltage is no substitute for keeping at at a proper Absorb Voltage long enough. Higher Voltage produces more gassing and more heat, both can be detrimental to the battery's lifespan. It's a tricky balancing act to get just high enough Absorb Voltage and long enough Absorb time to fully recharge with falling into the danger zone of loosing too much water per charge and creating too much internal heat.

So some people forgo the daily battery torture in favour of occasionally correcting the accumulated results by doing an equalization charge. Trouble there is you don't get maximum capacity for daily use and you increase the rate of death by sulphation. Seems you just can't win, doesn't it?

"How would you like your batteries to die, sir? Quickly cooked to a crisp or slowly choked on sulphur?"

I don't think you're in trouble this way. Your battery needs more deep cycle time on it to bring it up to its maximum capacity. But I think we all agree the Absorb Voltage should go up and the Absorb Time should be lengthened. It is important to do a full recharge after a deep discharge. When you have it "in use" (fully conditioned) you will not be discharging so deeply and as such the daily recharge need only be back up to the 80%-ish range and then you can use a weekly full charge and occasional EQ cycle to maintain its health.

BTW, another solution (which won't work for you) is to divide the system into several smaller segments so that the battery banks involved do not require such enormous amounts of current, even though the total adds up to a lot. Sounds weird, but it works.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

coot

I don't think you're in trouble this way. Your battery needs more deep cycle time on it to bring it up to its maximum capacity. But I think we all agree the Absorb Voltage should go up and the Absorb Time should be lengthened. It is important to do a full recharge after a deep discharge. When you have it "in use" (fully conditioned) you will not be discharging so deeply and as such the daily recharge need only be back up to the 80%-ish range and then you can use a weekly full charge and occasional EQ cycle to maintain its health.

Full recharge. On days the inverter comes off the battery due to low battery, loads will not come on till the battery reaches 55 volts. Twice this has happened where I only got 8000 watts the first day so never reached 55 volts but reached it very early the next day causing a much earlyer absorb start time on the second day. Does this meet your full charge after low discharge?

Higher absorb voltage. Do you still think on an non temp compensated battery that I should go with 60 volts? Do I have to worry about turmal runnaway?

I am going to change my absorb time from three hours to six. I am going to drop the night time loads so that the morning absorb comes earlyer at least once a week. Should I leave the load returning to the batteries at 55 volts or should I put that voltage higher?

May not happen imediatly but, Take my home made panels and face east and hook directly to the batteries for a morning boost in the bulk charge stage. I may only have about 1200 watts home made panels as 700 watts was in a shed that got blew away in a tornado day before yesterday.;
Good Ideal?

Raise the battery cut out to kick the inverter off at 46 volts for 6 min or 12min or 1/2 hour?

The 60 volt absorb scares me a bit but I am willing to try it.

If I do the above things and then watch for a month or so to see the affect, Will I be on the right track or am I not hearing correctly?

Thanks
gww

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Sorry to keep adding questions but, I dont wan't to lose my hot water heating once I reach absorb voltage if I have the power. the reason I had the loads kicking on at 55 volts after it had reached that for one hour was so when the hot water kicked on at absorb it would not be running from the grid but insted from the solar.
Thanks
gww

westbranch · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

From what I have read, you have a LVD on the inverter, I forget its setting. What happens to the voltage after the LVD switches off battery power? What does it go up to? you should see at least a 2 or more volt rise on a 48 vbank.

Since you have grid power I don't quite understand why you do not use it to bulk up your battery and see if you are able to get all the way through Absorb, (on SOLAR) on the new settings, to Float in one day. then next day see what happens using just solar to run through the cycle.
THEN start playing with the settings, ie lower Abs V or lower the time, BUT not both at the same time.

hth

Cariboocoot · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

What I would do:

1). set the Absorb Voltage to 58 to begin with.
2). leave the loads off the system during the day.
3). let the Absorb Time run all day, and watch the current vs. time during this stage. When the current falls off to around 3% of capacity (<24 Amps no loads) the Absorb stage is probably as finished as it will get and the battery is for practical purposes fully charged.
4). turn the loads on at night (as in as soon as Absorb is done they can be on) and cycle the battery down to 46 Volts.
5). recharge again. Repeat several times.

If you can run the loads without pulling the Voltage down below 58 in Absorb, okay. Don't have them on at only 55 Volts: current drawn off during Bulk will slow that cycle. And do not obsess over the kW hours coming from the charge controller: you're trying to condition these batteries for full capacity which takes repeated deep discharge/full recharge cycles. Once you get past this stage (check the SG no matter what the battery guy says; you want it high and even after a full charge) you can adjust things to suit your use. That may include the aforementioned occasional EQ in conjunction with slightly less Absorb time and definitely will include loads concurrent with charging.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Westbranch
When the battery cutoff was 48 volts it would drop the loads and go above 50 volts every time. That happened even when the 48 volt had to be held for 30 min before dropping the loads. I have used the grid to do complete charge cycles and eq. Again the battery would accept only 16 amps in less then two hours into the absorb cycle that I had set for 3 hours. I ran the battery without loads for a couple weeks and the charge controllers still only put out 4000 to 6000 watt a day I added loads and the battery only accepted 17000 with loads and I got to float every day the sg's still kept going down and I ran an eq cycle every 10 days to get the sg's to 1.285 just to keep the sg's to stay above 1.220 after charge cycle. The only change was two at one time.
1. called the battery manufactuer who said lower discharge voltage and only equalize once per month.
2. I added the hot water divertion load.

The hours are shorter and the absorb does come later but I am still shaving production on some days due to nothing that will accept it.

Coot I will cut the daytime loads and charge to absorb and see when it happens and if I should run anything without droping below. It seems like I am repeting some of what I have done but I will try it for a while cause I may be to far the other way now. I will switch the absorb to 58 volts which will be 58.2 on the charge controllers. I will cycle the batteries down to 46 volts for twelve minutes for disconnect. My low votage last night was 45 but the battery was sitting at 47.9 at 5 am this morning before sunlight. I will watch for the end amps with no load to get to 16 or 24. It is deer season now and the first time I am not babysitting my system 24/7. I am at mom and dads cause I still don't have internet service or would have been bugging you more. I will try the above and report my results as soon as I can. It is going to be hard losing the production I could have made but I will see how it works for a bit and adjust from there.
Thank you for your time
gww

Vic · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Hi gww,

First, congratulations on getting your system set up and on the new Forklift battery.
Am sorry to hear of the tornado, and loosing your home built PVs.

Many of have always recommended that users with battery questions contact the manufacturer of the battery for advice from their Tech folks.
I do wonder if there is a way for you to contact the manufacturer, and NOT just have to deal with the Rep.

As others have noted, the prescribed Absorption voltage in the low 57s seems low, especially for a forklift battery. Generally, bubbling is a good thing in the Absorb stage, as it mixes the electrolyte. IMHO, would think that an Absorb voltage above 58 V would be good for this type of battery -- it seems to use 1.280 or higher SG electrolyte.

The correct End Amps value does depend on the Absorb voltage -- a lower Absorb voltage will reduce the EA value necessary for a full recharge.

Am in complete agreement that you DO need to cycle this battery (as you have been doing), and that you need to fully recharge the battery after each of these cycles. When you get a handle on what the battery needs in the way of Absorption voltage and time, then, you can experiment with some of the other charge strategies.

It is very good that you are paying close attention to the new battery, Flooded batteries are fairly tolerant.

One question, I forget if you mentioned weather the battery is using any water so far (?).
And another one, too, What is the manufacturer of the battery?
Good Luck, Vic

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Vic
Thank you
Bought from giant battery and battery has battery builders writen on it and the sg on a plack says sg 1.285. I put about two quarts of water after eq. filled to just below vent slots. It may be venting a tiny bit of that out and the manufactuer wants it 1/4 " above the splash plate. I may have put a little bit too much but I am not going through water yet.
Advice is welcome. battey was 46.4 this morning and 47.2 after loads removed. only made 18000watts yesterday, clouds. have it where the loads wont kick on today but can't watch it much. raised charge voltages and time. mx 60 absorb can only be 4 hours so put flote at same voltage 58.2 which should be 58 actual.
thanks
gww

PS I think a builder contact phone number is on the shipping invoice, I will be following up better around thanksgiving. As much as I care about the battery I really like deer season as well. I am in MO and the tornado was in Indiana. the panels may be ok as I was told the shed was gone but the stuff was still sitting on the floor. I will know more later but thank you.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

I went home and tryed to take a couple pictures. Then you would know the equiptment and the quality or lack of installation. I would have also got the sky. for the first time in my life my wife had no extra batteries. Maby soon. At one oclock the panels only put out 1200watts and the turbines 120 watts. The battery was 48.8 on the cc which probly transulates to 48.6. I will not put loads on tonight and maby tommorrow will be better.
just an update
thanks
gww

Cariboocoot · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Do not fixate on the Watts coming from the panels. It is irrelevant to cycling the batteries to get them into condition. So long as there is enough power to bring them up to proper Voltage and hold it there long enough to complete the charge the Watts used to do it with doesn't matter.

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

coot
I was just pointing out how crappy the clouds were and that nothing was getting charged today. If nothing else I was pointing out to myself that 5000 watts of pv is nothing without sun. I am going to try charging only and discharging only to cycle the batteries IE: train them and learn also. I just felt like whining and feeling sorry for myself that nothing is happening today. Keep an eye on me though. I didn't follow your advice on the manual generator transfer panel and when I got it, it didn't do what I thought it would and was redundant. I should have bought a cheep panel from home depo. Except for my homemade panels I think that was my costliest mistake. I Thank you for your imput.
gww

Vic · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Hi gww,

Thanks for the info on the battery manufacturer, and on the water use so far.

Have fun hunting, and will follow your adventures with the new system. Vic

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Here is my inverter, cc, mate and battery.

Attachment not found.

Here is the top of my battery.

Attachment not found.

although dusty, it looks as if it has vented a little water. I don't know what is normal but it doesn't look much to me for a couple of months. The battery water currently just barily covers the splash plate but the battery has a very low charge now. anouther clowdy day so it looks as if I might have to do some charging from the grid. It was sitting on 48 volts on the cc this morning after having no loads on it. It only recieved about 2000 watts worth of charge yesterday and from the looks of things, won,t get anymore today. It probly loses more then that in self discharge.

Time to bite the bullet and charge from the grid?

Thanks
gww

gww1 · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

Here is the sky where the sun sould be.
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I popped home and turned the charger in the inverters on. I put them at 15 amps output each. I set absorb to 58 volts and set it to absorb for six hours. I was reluctant to do this but then thought I had to equalize for 17 hours last time so I should be ok. I will miss watching where the end amps come in but will follow through on that. What should I do with float as I am sure I will reach it at some point during my systems life?
Thanks
gww

Vic · November 2013

Re: battery, your thoughts-help

gww,

Thanks for the pics of your system. Looks nice.

if the battery is at 48 V in the morning when there have been no loads and no charging for hours then the battery IS fairly low. But remember, that battery voltage needs to be temperature compensated -- usually about --0.12 volts per degree C.

The "splash guard" is probably what some manufacturers call a moss guard. Normally, this sits on top of the plates (or separators), and indicates to me that there is just barely enough water to avoid exposing the plates. Even if the battery is almost totally discharged, this still seems low to me. I expect that forklift batteries have quite a lot of space above the plates for electrolyte. Would suggest that you add some Distilled Water soon. This should be done when the battery is charged, or almost fully charged, unless the plates are becoming exposed. Add water immediately if the plates are exposed at all.

More later, Vic

I forget if you are using BTSes on the CCs and Inverters ...

battery, your thoughts-help

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