Charging 12v scooter

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System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Energy Use & Conservation #1
Greetings. In another effort to minimize my fuel consumption (it just past $3/gallon in my area) I have purchased a 600w electric scooter that I will use whenever I need to "run" to the local store or for short trips around town. My aim is to recharge the scooter's 12v batteries using my small solar setup and battery bank. Obviously I'm looking to avoid charging my scooter's 12v batteries using my msw inverter seeing all the losses involved with the transfer of power. Just how do I go about doing this? It seems redundant to take a 12v power source coming from my panels, storing it in 12v batteries, inverting it to 110 to power a wall wart that converts it back down to 12v to charge the scooter's bats. I've been looking for a productive use for my small system and this fits the bill perfectly, I'd just hate to lose power inverting it when the scooter is using the same volts as the panels produce. Is there a trick in wiring directly from the panels to the scoot's bats? How will this affect charging times as it is assumed charging on 110v? Should I just go with the flow and use my inverter? My scooter should arrive around mid-week and I'm looking into breaking it in over the weekend. Darn things are pretty affordable now and come with some neat features. Any help is much appreciated! :-D :-D
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #2
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    Do you have a brand / model number for the scooter? What kind of batteries does it use?

    I would tend towards using their charging system (12 - 120 - 12) pending learning more about their system. Does the wall-wart do all of the charging or does it simply supply raw power to the scooter and its own electronics do the battery management.

    If you are talking about the little scooter guys (electric Razor type), you would not be losing that much energy to the conversions...

    In any case, assuming that the battery to be charged is not identical to the your own house battery--would you need a separate charger which is going to need some sort of inverter or voltage booster to charge the second battery?

    I found a Xantrex unit that appears to take another approach at charging the second battery... Takes 12 vdc from your storage batteries and charges a second battery using the charge profile of the host storage battery charge controller. However, it is setup to only do this if your storage batteries are at 13 volts or higher (presumably charging from your solar panels. It will not charge on a dark day or overnight. And it is ~$100. It is hard to tell from the specs. if it is worth the money (it does limit current which probably keeps things safe). Is is more efficient or less than an AC adapter--the spec. sheet does not say.

    http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/103/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #3
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    Thanks BB. The scooter is here: www.scootersrfun.com/. The 600w model I'm assuming uses (2) 12v sealed lead acid bats and the 900w uses (3). I'm probably better off just taking the losses through the inverter as opposed to buying more equipment like you suggest. After more research, I might want to give the 600w scooter away as a gift and jump up to a small gas powered scooter capable of highway speeds and a range of over 100 miles on a gallon of gas. All for under $1000! www.extremescooters.biz/productdescription.asp?URLModel=Roketa_Bermuda_MC-11_150cc_Moped. I'm getting that feeling again. Sharp looking scooter, and at that price with that kind of milage, might be what I need. Thanks for the info. :-D
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #4
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    That Xantrex charger also works for 24 volt to 24 volt which appears to be what that 600watt scooter uses... Unless you go gas.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    I'd advise caution on using Xantrex' Echo Charge gizmo. Xantrex says both battery banks must be the same DC voltage and battery type. The scooter's batteries appear to be AGM ("SLA = sealed lead acid"). It's possible that the battery manufacturer's charging instructions will be printed on the batteries. You might want to check 'em out when the scooter arrives and then figure out an effective charging solution.

    Overall, I think this is a cool idea and I hope the scooter works out for you!

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    I'm going to play it safe and stick with the inverter setup. I'll complain about inverter/power loss but in the end, all I'm using the power stored in the batteries for is intermediate use anyway. I've been looking for a "daily" use out of my small system and it seems to rebound quite quickly. The small battery in the scooter will take the charge quite well and I'll feel better about it all considering. I always hate to see the battery bank at 14.2v at 9:00AM with a full days worth of sun ahead and nothing to power!! :-( :-( I want to use every bit I can when the sun's shinning :-D So far my tiny bank of 210ah does quite well powering my 250w big screen for 4 hrs, or air purifier for 12, even a compact fridge for over 6. These were all little tests and the bats worked great. The scooter is just another test and we'll see how it goes. A little pr for Xantrex, the meter I have is awesome. I rely on it heavily. Once you calibrate it, it is wonderful and worth the $$.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #7
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    VERY tempting.. only 175?!?

    whats the range on that 24v one you bought? the second one is listed as 12v with a range of 28miles. i am wondering what the range of the first is and if both are same price? they dont have very much info there. :|

    sounds like a great use for your extra power! id agree its probably best to use the inverter until you find out what controls the charging algorithm. *IF* its onboard and not in the ac adapter, then you should be able to charge it with a simple 12->24 inverter id think, right? (someone who knows what theyre talking about, feel free to step in here) ;) :roll:
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #8
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    The 600w scooter will average a range of 20 miles, or so says the dealer. With only 4 hrs to charge, I'm not concerned. Their max speeds are about even and the biggest difference between them is frame size. They're supposed to be designed for off road use only but are small enough for jogging trails, side streets and sidewalks. Foldable too. What the web page doesn't show is that the dash on the scooter shows speed, battery level, and full instrumentation. http://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-Scooter-FREE-SHIPPING-600-WATTS-OF-POWER-FAST_W0QQitemZ7242630337QQcategoryZ64678QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The going deals are either $99 for the scooter and add $89 for shipping or pay the $175 or so and they'll include shipping. I'm still podering over the gas scooter as it also is a steal at $840.  110 mile range on 1 gallon of gas?? :-o That's back and forth to work for a week, something I spend $40-$50 on now! :cry: I've spent many hours trying to find a better price but can't. Some dealers put the gas scooter's msrp at $4000 while others put it at $2000. :? Can't trust any of them. Summer's about here and who knows when gas will come down out of the clouds. :-D :-D
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #9
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    now down to 165 on his ebay page. lemme know how it works out with the electric, did it say how many amp hours the battery was for the 12 and/or 24v configs?
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #10
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    The 24v scooter uses a 12AH battery while the 900w one only says (3) 12v. ?? I was given the run around with the gas scooter company that I ordered  a scooter from today. Confirmed purchase yesterday, they sent an email to me today that their online stock count was wrong and if I wouldn't mind if they "swaped" the one I ordered out for a more expensive one in stock. (Bait and switch). Disappointed, I found another identical scooter online for $140 less. :-D :-D Seemed to work out. $900 shipped as opposed to $840 + $200 shipping. http://jimbosmall.com/id162.html I only hope I don't get another "dear John" email from this company tomorrow.  :wink:
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  • Patman3
    Patman3 Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    I just bought an electric scooter! Thanks for posting that. I would much rather burn coal (or solar cells) for transportation than oil right now so it was a no brainer for me for - short trips, since it has a little cargo basket!!
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  • Frank
    Frank Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter
    shawndecker1 wrote:
    The 24v scooter uses a 12AH battery while the 900w one only says (3) 12v. ?? I was given the run around with the gas scooter company that I ordered a scooter from today. Confirmed purchase yesterday, they sent an email to me today that their online stock count was wrong and if I wouldn't mind if they "swaped" the one I ordered out for a more expensive one in stock. (Bait and switch). Disappointed, I found another identical scooter online for $140 less. :-D :-D Seemed to work out. $900 shipped as opposed to $840 + $200 shipping. http://jimbosmall.com/id162.html I only hope I don't get another "dear John" email from this company tomorrow. :wink:

    The link is for a gas-version; is that what you got?
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #13
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    Actually I have both. The scooters are still being shipped to me as we speak. I wanted the small electric one for within my neighborhood, to the post office, ect. The gas scooter will be for a little longer trip to my sisters and such about 7 miles away. The gas scooter is also suited to take me to work. I just have to find an alternate route using smaller streets, with about 50 mph as my cruising speed. With the range of the gas scooter on a gallon of gas, I just have to try it out. I was using my large 1400cc cruising motorcycle to save on gas but the scooter has twice the fuel economy of the big bike. :-) I won't know for sure about actual mileage until I run it through, so we'll see. These gas scooters are the rage on Ebay and are getting harder and harder to get. I'll sigh in relief when it actually gets here as I haven't purchased anything that large on Ebay yet and I'm hoping everything is on the up and up with shipping. We'll see! :-D :-D
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #14
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    Got the electric scooter today and it is pretty cool. I have no idea how they rate these as off road use only due to the low torque they have. Charged it up using the solar bank and went for a spin. Started raining so back home I went. I'm a good sized man at 6'2" 215lbs and the scooter got me up to I guess 15mph. I'm going to give it to my step son who's 12 and will love me for it. He's probably 70lbs soaking wet and it will shoot him around quite easily. It's just not big enough for someone my size. When the 150cc gas scooter arrives, I'll be happy. Insuring and registering the gas scooter will prove more troublesome than buying it I can assure you. I've been investigating it online and will take a minimum of two weeks (probably a h@ll of alot more) to get the mso's. (Manufacturer's statement of origin). The statement of origin is needed to obtain the registration from the DMV before it can be inspected. It also needs liability insurance as well. Nothing is easy anymore! :-( Because the vehicle is considered a moped, two riders is considered "illegal" in some states. These scooters are equipped with two seater capacity, and are designed for it. Why is it when we find an alternative sources of "anything", we get thrown so many hurdles and yet more fees? :? :?
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #15
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    Went for a nice evening ride on the scooter. I must admit it's quite fun. Full instrumentation on speed, and battery voltage. Comes with head lights, turn signals, brake lights and lockable trunk, all for under $200 shipped. My step son is going to love this!! :-D :-D It carted my big butt around on streets fairly well. Think I'll go for another spin, just to "check" it out. :-D :-D
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  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Charging 12v scooter

    So how fast does it really go? I wonder if you could swap out the 12 inch tires for say a 14, 16, or even 18 inch tire thus increasing the gear ration to get a bigher top speed.

    I would like something to go to and from work, but I would really like to get to at least 30 mph
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
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