Let's revisit solar leasing

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  • SkiDoo55SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    Working great for me Dave. Popped right up on my IPad.

    Swede, What operating system are you using? Win 7/8 may need to switch to compatilibity view.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
  • daventexasdaventexas Registered Users Posts: 1
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    May even be another thread? :cool:Grateful to have found much info in this forum, like the limit to buy back rate ( 80/90% limit on 200 amp residential service). I'm curious if it could be an advantage to me, cash to me, if I put panels on rental properties, maybe a split, or some mutual benefit, me and my renters. anyone ever hear of such a thing? I have not seen a system repo'd, heard of them getting stolen, agravating as well. damage from bullets, arrows, kids in general....

    the announced systems sometimes showing in the footer? noticed a few folks have generators as well, I suppose at some point the forum could be mined for exactly what the ultimate system is, After all the clinkers get shook out. Still shopping and lurking, thanks again for all this overwhelming info.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    Welcome to the forum.
    daventexas wrote: »
    the announced systems sometimes showing in the footer? noticed a few folks have generators as well, I suppose at some point the forum could be mined for exactly what the ultimate system is, After all the clinkers get shook out. Still shopping and lurking, thanks again for all this overwhelming info.

    Well, no because every system is tailored to meet the needs of the particular installation. This would include location and usage patterns. As such there are no "one-size-fits-all" systems or any applicable absolutes for equipment either for supplying power or utilizing it.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    SkiDoo55 wrote: »
    Working great for me Dave. Popped right up on my IPad.

    Swede, What operating system are you using? Win 7/8 may need to switch to compatilibity view.
    Win 7. I'll try switching compatibilty.

    Swede
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    solar_dave wrote: »
    You have to have java script enabled, the gray screen is step one in the load, the next step will be the word "Loading".

    It is up here and working with no issues.

    Dave,
    One possible explanation for the situations where you have to reset the box:
    If the web server inside the unit is limited in the number of concurrent TCP/HTTP connections it can support and you give out the URL to all of the folks on this forum, you could easily get connections that stay open as long as each viewer keeps their browser open, whether they are looking at that tab or window or not. Eventually there are no free connections left on the box to accept a new request.
    If this is part or all of the problem, simply breaking and then restoring the network connection instead of resetting the box might get it serving pages again.
    Depends on whether the loss of the ethernet interface on the box will automatically close all open connections in the web server code.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    inetdog wrote: »
    Dave,
    One possible explanation for the situations where you have to reset the box:
    If the web server inside the unit is limited in the number of concurrent TCP/HTTP connections it can support and you give out the URL to all of the folks on this forum, you could easily get connections that stay open as long as each viewer keeps their browser open, whether they are looking at that tab or window or not. Eventually there are no free connections left on the box to accept a new request.
    If this is part or all of the problem, simply breaking and then restoring the network connection instead of resetting the box might get it serving pages again.
    Depends on whether the loss of the ethernet interface on the box will automatically close all open connections in the web server code.

    Yeah that could be, there is a wireless client bridge device attached to it, a reboot of that device does clear the connections. However I have also seen it so screwed up that a power cycle is required. With no shell interface, all one can do is speculate on the root causes.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    daventexas wrote: »
    May even be another thread? :cool:Grateful to have found much info in this forum, like the limit to buy back rate ( 80/90% limit on 200 amp residential service). I'm curious if it could be an advantage to me, cash to me, if I put panels on rental properties, maybe a split, or some mutual benefit, me and my renters. anyone ever hear of such a thing? I have not seen a system repo'd, heard of them getting stolen, agravating as well. damage from bullets, arrows, kids in general....

    the announced systems sometimes showing in the footer? noticed a few folks have generators as well, I suppose at some point the forum could be mined for exactly what the ultimate system is, After all the clinkers get shook out. Still shopping and lurking, thanks again for all this overwhelming info.

    There are all kinds of deals. In my case I chose 20 year leasing (lump sum 28k) because I didn't want any hassle. Being retired, the IRS tax credits weren't worth all that much to us. The agreement guarantees 14 mwh production every year and it looks like we'll exceed that easily (8.5 first 6 months) . Also guarantees no more tthan 1/2 percent reduction in efficiency each year. At the end of the lease (presumably someone else's problem) they'll take system out and restore roof if we can't come to agreement otherwise.

    With NJ SRECs and current price of electricity, I figure an 8 year payoff. (Our town doesn't do net metering, but charges retail for what we get from grid and pays us wholesale for what we put in the grid.)

    Dave - I checked "compatibility" and seems ok, JS is enabled. I tried with Chrome and got a "Can't Load Page" msg. Likely problem is with router wall as it loads for others. {sad look here}

    Swede
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    Swede wrote: »
    Dave - I checked "compatibility" and seems ok, JS is enabled. I tried with Chrome and got a "Can't Load Page" msg. Likely problem is with router wall as it loads for others. {sad look here}

    Swede

    I certainly don't know what to tell you. Some browsers may time out waiting on the load of the pretty largish java script. The device is only a 10mbit connection and is pretty slow to transfer as it can be pretty busy collecting data from 4 sensors every second.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    Dave,

    Just wanted to say thx for reccoing the Ted 5000. Just had it installed today by local electrician. Would have done it myself though while I KNOW I'm competent handyman, there are times ...

    Now am going to locate/install software.

    Thx again, Looks really cool. {grin}

    Swede
    ==================================================================
    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat.
    We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind.
    We have before us many, many long months
    of struggle and of suffering.
    You ask, 'what is our policy?'
    I can say:
    It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air,
    with all our might
    and with all the strength that God can give us;
    to wage war against a monstrous tyranny,
    never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime.
    That is our policy.
    Winston Churchill
    Excert from his first speech to Parliament(1940)
    ==================================================================
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    Dave,
    My URL - http://ted5000/Footprints.html
    Yours - http://phx-solar.no-ip.info/Footprints.html What I don't understand is why MY url does not have a unique address as it appears your does (though it STILL doesn't load for me). Is it a Setting I missed? Do I have to generate my own address in Settings somewhere?
    Plus I have another question. How accurate is the TED 5000? Its readings are WAY lower than what I am getting from my utility (solar) meter, which shows DELivered (purchased) and RECeived (sent to grid from solar unit)/
    From TED:..................................From Meter
    "mtu","date", "power"
    0,10/05/2013 00:00:00,19.253 ..................32
    0,10/04/2013 00:00:00,18.231 ..................38
    0,10/03/2013 00:00:00,16.940 ..................39
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    Swede wrote: »
    Dave,
    My URL - http://ted5000/Footprints.html
    Yours - http://phx-solar.no-ip.info/Footprints.html What I don't understand is why MY url does not have a unique address as it appears your does (though it STILL doesn't load for me). Is it a Setting I missed? Do I have to generate my own address in Settings somewhere?
    Plus I have another question. How accurate is the TED 5000? Its readings are WAY lower than what I am getting from my utility (solar) meter, which shows DELivered (purchased) and RECeived (sent to grid from solar unit)/
    From TED:..................................From Meter
    "mtu","date", "power"
    0,10/05/2013 00:00:00,19.253 ..................32
    0,10/04/2013 00:00:00,18.231 ..................38
    0,10/03/2013 00:00:00,16.940 ..................39

    First, from an external location you need to get in your router and port forward the internal IP and port of the TED, I had to set mine to a static IP in the TED configuration and reserve a group of IPS for static use by moving the DHCP start address up like 50 so my DHCP addresses run XXX.XXX.XXX.51 to XXX.XXX.XXX.255. I then set my TED static IP to XXX.XXX.XXX.49. You will also notice that the name is not really the IP address as shown when the page loads, that is because most internet providers for homes give you a dynamic IP address that can change at any time, you need a dynamic IP service to provide DNS for you. I use NO-IP, its free, you can google that and go from there.

    You are looking at a TED export with CSV( seconds, minutes, hourly?). How is your TED MTUs configured, Load - solar (MTU0 - MTU1), Load, solar ...
    Remember each MTU reads one thing.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    solar_dave wrote: »
    First, from an external location you need to get in your router and port forward the internal IP and port of the TED, I had to set mine to a static IP in the TED configuration and reserve a group of IPS for static use by moving the DHCP start address up like 50 so my DHCP addresses run XXX.XXX.XXX.51 to XXX.XXX.XXX.255. I then set my TED static IP to XXX.XXX.XXX.49. You will also notice that the name is not really the IP address as shown when the page loads, that is because most internet providers for homes give you a dynamic IP address that can change at any time, you need a dynamic IP service to provide DNS for you. I use NO-IP, its free, you can google that and go from there.
    I'll look into that, Thx
    You are looking at a TED export with CSV( seconds, minutes, hourly?).
    That's the Daily report.
    How is your TED MTUs configured, Load - solar (MTU0 - MTU1), Load, solar ...
    Remember each MTU reads one thing.
    I think it just reads what goes through panel into the house. Shouldn't make any dif whether it's solar or grid, AFAIK. I *think/thought* the solar connection is before the panel.
    Thx,
    Swede
    ==============================================
    Short is the joy
    that guilty pleasure brings.
    Euripides
    ==============================================
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    So you are only measuring the solar production and not the whole house? Just one MTU then?
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    solar_dave wrote: »
    So you are only measuring the solar production and not the whole house? Just one MTU then?
    Only 1 MTU. I thought it was measuring the whole house. AFAIK the MTU is measuring the whole house. The solar connection is before the panel. There is a dual read meter on the outside of the house that reads how much I send to the grid and how much I purchase from the grid. Neither of those numbers correspond even remotely to what the TED is measuring.
    (Bummer Note - the editor won't accept carriage returns.)
    ================================================================
    "Five Jewish men influenced the history of Western civilization:
    Moses said the law is everything.
    Jesus said love is everything.
    Marx said capital is everything.
    Freud said sex is everything.
    Einstein said everything is relative."
    Anonymous
    ================================================================
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    So is your back feed a line side tap or is it via a main panel breaker? I assume the MTU is on the main panel feed line.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    solar_dave wrote: »
    So is your back feed a line side tap or is it via a main panel breaker?
    Presumany there's a device on each feeder into the panel.
    I assume the MTU is on the main panel feed line.

    Yes.I just checked with the electrician and he said he put an amp probe (probably not proper term here) AFTER the solar amd grid connections, so that TED measures what's coming into the pane no matter the source.

    Thx,
    Swede
    ============================================
    "There are worse crimes than burning books.
    One of them is not reading them."
    Ray Bradbury
    ============================================
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    Swede wrote: »
    Presumany there's a device on each feeder into the panel.


    Yes.I just checked with the electrician and he said he put an amp probe (probably not proper term here) AFTER the solar amd grid connections, so that TED measures what's coming into the pane no matter the source.

    Thx,
    Swede
    ============================================
    "There are worse crimes than burning books.
    One of them is not reading them."
    Ray Bradbury
    ============================================

    I am confused. Do you have a solar breaker in the panel? If so then the TED is only going to measure the draw/backfed from the grid, and on a daily basis it will see your Net consumption. Look at the hourly data and see if that makes more sense.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    I had Network Settings checked (Systems Settings/Network Settings) . I unchecked it. Hopefully that will take care of things. Have to wait a few days to see how things stack up then.
    Thanks your help,
    Swede
    ===================================
    Speech is human,
    silence is divine,
    yet also brutish and dead:
    therefore we must learn both arts.
    Thomas Carlyle
    ===================================
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing

    Electrician here today and changed a ct. It now appears the meter/display is reading properly. It *appears* to be recording twice the wattage being used currently than it did before. I reset (Advanced/Reset Totals to Zero) and see how things stack up against daily readings I take from the utility meter (which records kwhr's purchased from grid and kwhr's sent to the grid).

    Thanks all. I'll post an update next week.

    Swede

    ============================================================
    "God is a comedian playing to an audience
    too afraid to laugh."
    Voltaire [1694-1778]
    ============================================================
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    Swede wrote: »
    Electrician here today and changed a ct. It now appears the meter/display is reading properly. It *appears* to be recording twice the wattage being used currently than it did before. I reset (Advanced/Reset Totals to Zero) and see how things stack up against daily readings I take from the utility meter (which records kwhr's purchased from grid and kwhr's sent to the grid).

    Thanks all. I'll post an update next week.

    Swede

    ============================================================
    "God is a comedian playing to an audience
    too afraid to laugh."
    Voltaire [1694-1778]
    ============================================================

    I think they will still be quite a bit different, if your selling to the grid you have to have one on the main and one on the solar and subtract by the proper configuration to get a Net amount.
  • SwedeSwede Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Let's revisit solar leasing
    solar_dave wrote: »
    I think they will still be quite a bit different, if your selling to the grid you have to have one on the main and one on the solar and subtract by the proper configuration to get a Net amount.

    The meter on the side of the house measures how much comes in from the grid and how much my solar sends to the grid (surplus that I am not using).

    The electrician placed the ct's in such a manner that they measure only what comes into the house, regardless of the source. Presuming that's correct, I will be able to calculate reasonably closely just how accurate my actual useage is. IOW, what I do now is add the Solar Daily Production (SDP - what the solar has generated for the entire day) to Grid Total (GT - what I have purchased from the grid) and subtract the Solar Surplus (SS - what I have sent to the grid).

    So the formula is SDP+GT-SS = My Useage for the Day(MUD). Now if MUD doesn't (roughly) equal what the TED says I used, I'll have to go looking for something, somewhere. If they are reasonably close, I'll feel more comfortable with things (meter accuracy, etc.).

    It seems to me I've been using a lot more electricity (ball park guess at this point) than I did before the solar. It may well be the old mechanical wheel meter was reading (say 20%) slow while the new digital is on the money. If I'm going to war with the utility, I'd like to have my own ducks lined up for sure. If my old meter was running slow then probably everyone else's is as well, which in turn means those of us with more accurate meters are subsidizing those with "slower" meters.

    Swede
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