Battery Question

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Comments

  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Question

    Here is a 45 amp charger that the specs say is a lot less starting amps than the IOTA, 725 watts.

    http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/rv_conv/rv_converter_pd9245c_2.html

    Added : I found this.

    """I spoke with one of the technicians at IOTA and they confirmed that the 45 amp would draw 1100 watts at startup and thus not work. They said that the 30 amp unit would. They provided quite a technical description and seemed very competent.

    To their credit, they agreed that 30 amps was not enough and referred me to their competitor with a strong recommendation for my intended use.

    I then spoke with James at Progressive Dynamics who said that their 45 amp charger WILL work, with room to spare as it peaks at ~700 watts MAXIMUM. Their charger uses a different technology and capacitors which allows it to put out the power more efficiently and eliminates the high amp startup. He also assured me I should see 45 amps going into the batteries when they are 1/2 empty (assuming that the batteries can take them.) I'll post my real world experiences when it arrives. ""

    Follow up :

    """We are currently using the Honda 1000 and a 45 amp charger and loving it!

    Our battery bank charges from 1/2 discharged back to full (and I do mean 100% full... not just 80%) and uses a half a gallon of gas each charge cycle. I even run the water maker during the battery charge and still can get full on a half gallon :) """

    .
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Question

    From prior discussions on this Forum, seems that the Iota Chargers lack the 15-cent part that would limit AC inrush current. As such these chargers seem to be very hard on switches that some use to switch them on/off, and naturally might be difficult to boot up with a small genset, like the EU-1000, depending on the Iota charger's output current capability. VIc
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Question
    Vic wrote: »
    From prior discussions on this Forum, seems that the Iota Chargers lack the 15-cent part that would limit AC inrush current. As such these chargers seem to be very hard on switches that some use to switch them on/off, and naturally might be difficult to boot up with a small genset, like the EU-1000, depending on the Iota charger's output current capability. VIc

    I believe the Iota design is adapted from an RV converter. Apparently they didn't feel it necessary to make any major changes since they were expecting them to be fed by large generators or shore power?
  • rake1rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Question

    Great discussion guys and a lot of info for everyone to use. Blackcherry04 thanks for all the effort you put into this I will look into the Progressive Dynamics on as well. Do you know if it has any adjust ability at all?
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Question
    rake1 wrote: »
    Great discussion guys and a lot of info for everyone to use. Blackcherry04 thanks for all the effort you put into this I will look into the Progressive Dynamics on as well. Do you know if it has any adjust ability at all?
    That I do not know, the IOTA has a 10 turn potentiometer in it that adjusts the Voltage output. I guess you can get in touch and ask.
  • jcheiljcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Question
    Vic wrote: »
    From prior discussions on this Forum, seems that the Iota Chargers lack the 15-cent part that would limit AC inrush current. As such these chargers seem to be very hard on switches that some use to switch them on/off, and naturally might be difficult to boot up with a small genset, like the EU-1000, depending on the Iota charger's output current capability. VIc

    Do you know what part would need to be added to prevent the inrush? Heck even if it is $20 for the part I would not mind hacking mine up to prevent the inrush. Pretty sure my warranty is up anyways.
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
  • rake1rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Question

    Here is what I found out from progressive doesn't look good

    The charger comes from the factory set for.
    AGM and Lead acid.
    13.2 Storage mode
    13.6 Regular mode
    14.4 Boost mode
    There is a jumper that can be added for Gel Cell batteries.

    See attached this changes the voltages to:
    12.8 Storage mode
    13.2 Regular mode
    14.0 Boost mode
    There are no other adjustments.
    Service Department
    Progressive Dynamics
    8A.M-12PM & 1PM -5PM EST
    Phone 269-781-4241

    FAX 269-781-8729


    That I do not know, the IOTA has a 10 turn potentiometer in it that adjusts the Voltage output. I guess you can get in touch and ask.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,611 admin
    Re: Battery Question

    As Marc/Cariboocoot has said before, it is surprisingly difficult to find the "optimum" stand alone charge controller for use with off grid power systems. Most of the AC charge controllers just do not have the range of adjustments and ability to limit current and high overall efficiency (for use with small gensets) that would be very nice to have.

    The missing "part" is an NTC thermister (Negative Temperature Coefficient Thermal Resistor). When the resistor is "cold", it has fairly high series resistance and limits the surge current to the AC power supply. After a second or three of applied power, the resistor heats up and lets "normal current" flow.

    NTC
    -Based Inrush Current Limiters - Newark
    (pdf flyer on use of NTC's)\
    Inrush current limiter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Could you install one in a Jbox with a cord and AC outlet (then plug the power supply into your "NTC Box")... Properly mounted in a metal box (fire hazard reduction)--I don't see why not.

    The only drawback to such a circuit--You need to let them cool for a minute or so to "reset". If you have a switch and flip the power on/off quickly, the NTC will not restrict surge current after the initial surge/turn on (if power switching is done quickly).
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • jcheiljcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Question
    BB. wrote: »
    The missing "part" is an NTC thermister (Negative Temperature Coefficient Thermal Resistor). When the resistor is "cold", it has fairly high series resistance and limits the surge current to the AC power supply. After a second or three of applied power, the resistor heats up and lets "normal current" flow.

    NTC
    -Based Inrush Current Limiters - Newark
    (pdf flyer on use of NTC's)\
    Inrush current limiter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Could you install one in a Jbox with a cord and AC outlet (then plug the power supply into your "NTC Box")... Properly mounted in a metal box (fire hazard reduction)--I don't see why not.

    The only drawback to such a circuit--You need to let them cool for a minute or so to "reset". If you have a switch and flip the power on/off quickly, the NTC will not restrict surge current after the initial surge/turn on (if power switching is done quickly).
    -Bill

    Thanks SO much. I will take the suggestion and build somewhat of an "extension cord" style with a metal box receptacle and let you all know how it works out.
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Question
    rake1 wrote: »
    Here is what I found out from progressive doesn't look good

    The charger comes from the factory set for.
    AGM and Lead acid.
    13.2 Storage mode
    13.6 Regular mode
    14.4 Boost mode
    There is a jumper that can be added for Gel Cell batteries.

    See attached this changes the voltages to:
    12.8 Storage mode
    13.2 Regular mode
    14.0 Boost mode
    There are no other adjustments.
    Service Department
    Progressive Dynamics
    8A.M-12PM & 1PM -5PM EST
    Phone 269-781-4241

    FAX 269-781-8729
    If you look at the Voltages they are a ratio to each other, with the jumper in they are all .4 difference, the same as the Iota. When you change the Iota's output voltage, all voltages change. Example : if you set the Boost / Bulk to 15 Volts then it raises all the other voltages go up .6 volts. Based on what you posted, I say both are about the same. This the reason I told you to get the IQ-4 as a separate module, you can plug it in or remove it and control the voltage manually.
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