AGM batteries going down or need more panels?

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Today after a year and 1/2 decided to pull out of my garage my 2 Agm batteries and 2 /100 watts solar panels, the batteries are 12 v and as per lable 200 AH ea, I charged one 100 w panel to each battery, while charging the amp reading was as sun Allowed 4.3 peak and variable less on a sunny day, being on ground temporary I turned the panels as sun went down, at the 2nd day by noon batteries were floating, I disconnected the set up after sun went down, the voltage that night was about 13.8 ea. today I connected the batteries in series for my 24 v inverter and read 24.6 v wich supposed to be 95% it's capacity, I turned on my inverter and ran one laptop and one fan on the 120v side, I tested the current being drawn at the battery and inverter and loads was pulling 6.5 amps. 2 hours later the batteries read 24.2 volts with said laoad, I did not connected the solar panels for charging, just run straight from batteries, so my question is how much running time should I get from my 24v 200 ah system with a total draw of 6.5 amp (including the inverter)?, after I turned off the inverter, batteries went back to 24.6v, agm batteries were built in 2007 same age, are they dying? How deep should discharge it volts wise at 24v system, long story but please any advice is appreciated on advance, thanks... Sorry thread tile should read AGM not ATM

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?

    Welcome to the forum Aguilq59,

    They sound OK so far... It would not hurt them to try and cycle them to 50% capacity, measure the resting voltage (remove loads/charging current and measure resting voltage after 3+ hours of no current flow), and recharge them again. Note that batteries which are "maintained" in float may not last as long as batteries that cycle down 10-20% or more every so often (it also depends on the battery design/construction--The are Lead Acid batteries designed for floating, and others for cycling).

    A 200 AH string (24 volts, two 200 AH 12 volt batteries in series) should support moderate loads to 100AH (50% of capacity) pretty easily.

    100AH / 6.5 amps = 15.3 Hours of run time to 50% of capacity

    So--If you measure your operating battery voltage and get below ~23.0 volts (11.5 volts @ 12 volt bank) under your relatively light 6.5 amp load before you hit ~15+ hours--Then I would worry that your batteries are not long for this world. At ~15 hours, turning of the loads, the batteries should bounce back to ~24-24.2 volts (~50% of capacity at 77F/25C).

    Also--to a degree--Battery life is based on what is acceptable to you. One battery mfg. calls their batteries end of life if they cannot support a 80% discharge (to 20% state of charge). Other mfg. might not call a battery failed if it support 25-35% or so state of charge (65-75% of capacity).

    If your batteries "dying" at 15 hours of use is unacceptable to you--Then they should be replaced.

    AGMs do have other issues... They have catalysts in each cell to recombine the hydrogen and oxygen (gasses from charging) back into water... Those catalysts do fail over time (the more the batteries "gas", the faster the catalysts fail). Once the catalysts fail, the batteries will begin to outgas/vent. And since you cannot replace the lost water, the batteries will fail and die.

    Note that failing batteries can overheat... So watch battery temperatures, hot/melted cell tops, noise from venting gasses, etc. It is possible to overheat and cause batteries to catch fire in worst case situations. You can see Thomas had a battery beginning to melt down:

    Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster


    Monitoring charging voltages, charging currents, battery temperatures/voltages across batteries/cells--Can all give you early warning of failures (check at least once per month--In my humble opinion).

    When making measures on batteries--You generally have several "identical" cells/batteries... When you see identical cells/batteries operating with different voltages/temperatures (specific gravities for flooded cell), you have your early warning and need to look further for the causes of the differences.

    You can also look at the current needed to float a battery... In general, if the batteries are full and you see >~2% steady state charging current (200 AH battery string, >~4 amps) during float--Then I would suspect the batteries are at end of life and should be replaced (if for safety issues, if nothing else).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Aguilq59
    Aguilq59 Registered Users Posts: 4
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?

    Sir, it has been 4 hrs since I turn of the inverter, now as I mentioned, I had a 6.5 amp load at the battery for 2 hrs, and shut inverter at 24.2, battery jumped back to the same to the 24.6 I started with, now 4 hrs later of rest and no load my AGMs batteries are 24.8, this batteries where storaged on my garage for 1.5 years but once every 3 or 4 months I gave it charge and never let below 12.2 v as single battery, I will charge the batteries tomorrow with 4/100 watts panels and try again, this time I'll run the same load untill battery gets as low to 23.0 v and record the running hours as per your advice, thanks for your help, I'll post my findings tomorrow.
    May God bless you all
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?

    1> those pvs are insufficient to charge those batteries.
    2> you never said the top end voltage they reached or if you had a regulator or charge controller on it.
    3> batteries will need a big charge every 3-4 months, but not with what you've got so odds are the batteries have lost capacity and are now junk, but i'll cross my fingers i'm wrong.
  • Aguilq59
    Aguilq59 Registered Users Posts: 4
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?
    niel wrote: »
    1> those pvs are insufficient to charge those batteries.
    2> you never said the top end voltage they reached or if you had a regulator or charge controller on it.
    3> batteries will need a big charge every 3-4 months, but not with what you've got so odds are the batteries have lost capacity and are now junk, but i'll cross my fingers i'm wrong.

    I just checked my batteries @ overnite rest are 12.6 ea. I have 10/100 watts panels but I'm testin my 12/200 ah AGMs and see if my son can run his fan and lap top, from 2 batteries, I have total o 4/200 ah AGMs , may be be enough 4/100 watt panels and 3/200 ah batteries as overnite draw of 7 amps ?
    Thanks for your reply, so far I have no tried because we having 3 cloudy days, 3 -12 v batteries won't do my 24v true sine inverter, just to try I'll have to use my12 msw inverter
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?

    now you've succeeded in confusing me on just what it is you've got and what you're doing.
  • Aguilq59
    Aguilq59 Registered Users Posts: 4
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?
    niel wrote: »
    now you've succeeded in confusing me on just what it is you've got and what you're doing.

    I'm sorry Niel, I'm trying to find out if my batteries are dying or I needed more panels, my load is going to be 7 amps, out of the batteries, my question is how many panels do I need for 400 ab batteries, I want to run about 7 amps for
    10 hrs, thanks
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: AGM batteries going down or need more panels?
    Aguilq59 wrote: »
    I'm sorry Niel, I'm trying to find out if my batteries are dying or I needed more panels, my load is going to be 7 amps, out of the batteries, my question is how many panels do I need for 400 ab batteries, I want to run about 7 amps for
    10 hrs, thanks

    by ab i am assuming you mean ah. i am also assuming this at 12v battery nominal volts. another assumption will be an mppt cc.

    7a x 10hrs = 70ah. 70ah x 12v = 840wh. 840wh/.77(efficiency factor)=1,091w stc for pvs.