Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Comments
-
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Good thinking and looks very nice. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
that's some nice looking lumber as there are so few knots. you might want to string a suspended side-rope up as a railing. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Dave, why would the AHJ want that TECK cable to be encased in concrete?
from Distributor Wire & Cable's site:
A big advantage of using an armored product such as Teck 90 is the fact you avoid the need for conduit or ducts. Since the Teck style item has armor in its construction, and can be direct buried, it eliminates the need for pipe
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Re #33 - Agreed. It was almost a shame using it for a boardwalk, especially when we had to cut up longer boards. However, given that we got a good deal from the mill on unfinished/unevenly milled wood, it was a lot less expensive then using the lower-grade cedar one would typically use for decking.
With respect to a railing, given that the boardwalk isn't that far above the ground (around three feet at the highest point), and given that it isn't going to be open to the public, we think that we're good without one for the time being. However, we did leave it open to adding one at a later date if desired.
Re #34 - A good percentage of the run is over solid rock, and the AHJ requires the teck to be either encased in concrete (6 inches on each side) or under a protective wooden structure when not buried.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Today was the big day — First power!
Everything came up quite smoothly. We're very impressed with the SMA equipment so far.
The transfer box is also all wired up now. Here's a view inside:
The PSL pQube can be seen on the DIN rail at the bottom of the box.
Both Sunny Boys and the Solar Monitoring Panel are also operational.
It's so exciting to finally have everything running. All that remains is RS-485 and Ethernet cabling, and terminating the runs from the container to the buildings. And when the sun comes out tomorrow, we'll start charging those batteries!
Attachment not found. Attachment not found. Attachment not found.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Time for a new signature!House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
nice, neat wiring...
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Very nice install. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Looks like a fantastic installation you have there!
I dont know if you mind disclosing information on how much the whole system cost (excluding any construction etc), all the equipment and cabling eetc,,?? any ballpark figure would be fine -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Re #38, 39 - Thank you! I also had very good help putting this system together — It's worth getting professionals involved.
Re #40 - I'll see what I can do to put together a summary of the major costs of the system. However, it's worth emphasizing that I can't easily provide a comprehensive analysis all the way down to cabling costs, etc, and there are a fair number of costs associated with the system that are there to enable future expansion, enhanced redundancy, provide shared communication services, etc.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
More progress today, though we ran into a slight problem with the Sunny Boys...
See if you can spot the mistake in the below manual page:
Yep, that's wright — The configuration settings for Island Mode - 60 Hz is incorrect. Serves us right for following the directions...
And as a result of this little misconfiguration, every time the Sunny Islands would try to throttle back solar production by increasing the frequency, the Sunny Boys would disconnect.
By the time we were able to figure out this was the problem (and after three hours on hold waiting for SMA tech support), we were worried that we had been locked out of the inverters (Sunny Boys have a "Grid Guard" "feature" that prevents you from changing your settings after "ten feed-in hours" (SMA tech support couldn't define what this exactly meant).
The first time we tried to change the settings, we got an error, but it seems to have taken the second time we restarted the Sunny Boys.
We've also been working on laying the cables from the cabin to the building:
Code requires the cables to be buried two feet down, with six inches of sand above and below. We were really worried about the sand, since it's hard to come by here, but we were fortunate in that we found a nearby bank that had more than enough for our needs.
Other notable progress includes completing much of the communication wiring and getting the WebBox communicating with the Sunny Islands via RS-485. The WebBox seems very sluggish, has broken images, and we're still having some trouble with the Sunny Boys not showing their parameters, so there is still more work to do here.
Another strange issue is that the Sunny Islands seem to want to throttle back charging, yet the SoC still reads 86%.
But, this is all to be expected; any complex system like this is going to have quite a few commissioning hiccups before everything is running perfectly.
Attachment not found. Attachment not found.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Ok great, yes that's fine, just a ball park figure for the major system parts -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4David & Laura wrote: »Another strange issue is that the Sunny Islands seem to want to throttle back charging, yet the SoC still reads 86%.
The SI's will throttle based on the charging mode, not SoC. So if it's in float or absorb, it will start throttling. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Re #44 - It was throttling back while in charging mode "Full", which didn't make sense.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4David & Laura wrote: »Re #44 - It was throttling back while in charging mode "Full", which didn't make sense.
"Full" also includes an absorb phase, so it is possible that it had already started absorb. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
I was going to ask a similar Q. What are the loads so far? If batts still 'near new' you will hit Abs very quickly. So low loads> quickly achieve Abs. > = v. short Bulk.
hth
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Re #46, #47 - The batteries are brand new, so that could be what his happening... The Sunny Island only changes state when it reaches Float.
Here are the SI values from the WebBox:No. Name Value Unit 1 Adr Master 2 AptPhs On 3 AptTmRmg 23437 hhmmss 4 BatChrgOp Full 5 BatChrgVtg 57.897 V 6 BatSoc 86.2 % 7 BatSocErr 10.3 % 8 BatTmp 21.9 degC 9 BatVtg 57.9 V 10 CardStt Operational 11 ChpPwrAt 0 kW 12 ChpRmgTm 0 hhmmss 13 ChpStrRmgTm 0 hhmmss 14 ChpStt Idle 15 EgyCntIn 3.1 kWh 16 EgyCntOut 0.6 kWh 17 EgyCntTm 25 h 18 Error ----- 19 E-Total 0.6 kWh 20 E-Total-In 3.1 kWh 21 ExtCur 0.2 A 22 ExtCurSlv1 0.3 A 23 ExtCurSlv2 0 A 24 ExtCurSlv3 0 A 25 ExtFrq 0 Hz 26 ExtPwrAt 0 kW 27 ExtPwrAtSlv1 0 kW 28 ExtPwrAtSlv2 0 kW 29 ExtPwrAtSlv3 0 kW 30 ExtPwrRt 0 kVAr 31 ExtPwrRtSlv1 0 kVAr 32 ExtPwrRtSlv2 0 kVAr 33 ExtPwrRtSlv3 0 kVAr 34 ExtVtg 2.8 V 35 ExtVtgSlv1 2.7 V 36 ExtVtgSlv2 0 V 37 ExtVtgSlv3 0 V 38 Fac 61.9 Hz 39 Firmware 6.002 40 FwVer 6.002 41 FwVer2 6 42 GdCtcCnt 0 43 GdEgyCntIn 0 kWh 44 GdEgyCntOut 0 kWh 45 GdEgyTmh 0 h 46 GdOpTmh 0 h 47 GdRmgTm 0 hhmmss 48 GnDmdSrc Bat 49 GnEgyCnt 0 kWh 50 GnEgyTm 0 h 51 GnOpTmh 0 h 52 GnRmgTm 0 hhmmss 53 GnRnStt Off 54 GnStrCnt 0 55 GnStt Off 56 h-On 25 h 57 Iac 2 A 58 InvCur 2 A 59 InvCurSlv1 2 A 60 InvCurSlv2 0 A 61 InvCurSlv3 0 A 62 InvFrq 61.9 Hz 63 InvOpStt Run 64 InvOpSttSlv1 Run 65 InvOpSttSlv2 --- 66 InvOpSttSlv3 --- 67 InvPwrAt -0.1 kW 68 InvPwrAtSlv1 -0.1 kW 69 InvPwrAtSlv2 0 kW 70 InvPwrAtSlv3 0 kW 71 InvPwrRt -0.1 kVAr 72 InvPwrRtSlv1 -0.1 kVAr 73 InvPwrRtSlv2 0 kVAr 74 InvPwrRtSlv3 0 kVAr 75 InvVtg 119.9 V 76 InvVtgSlv1 119.9 V 77 InvVtgSlv2 0 V 78 InvVtgSlv3 0 V 79 Mode Operation 80 Msg 0 81 OnTmh 25 h 82 OpStt Operating 83 OpSttSlv1 Operating 84 OpSttSlv2 --- 85 OpSttSlv3 --- 86 Pac -0.3 kW 87 Prio Ina 88 Rly1Stt Off 89 Rly2Stt On 90 RmgTmEqu 178 d 91 RmgTmFul 12 d 92 Serial Number nnn 93 Sic1EgyCntIn 0 kWh 94 Sic1PvPwr 0 W 95 Sic1SWVers 0 96 Sic1TdyEgyCntIn 0 kWh 97 Sic2EgyCntIn 0 kWh 98 Sic2PvPwr 0 W 99 Sic2SWVers 0 100 Sic2TdyEgyCntIn 0 kWh 101 Sic3EgyCntIn 0 kWh 102 Sic3PvPwr 0 W 103 Sic3SWVers 0 104 Sic3TdyEgyCntIn 0 kWh 105 Sic4EgyCntIn 0 kWh 106 Sic4PvPwr 0 W 107 Sic4SWVers 0 108 Sic4TdyEgyCntIn 0 kWh 109 Soh 100 % 110 TotBatCur -4.8 A 111 TotExtCur 0.6 A 112 TotExtPwrAt 0 kW 113 TotExtPwrRt 0 kVAr 114 TotInvCur 4 A 115 TotInvPwrAt -0.3 kW 116 TotInvPwrRt -0.3 kVAr 117 TotLodPwr -0.3 kW 118 TotMccLodPwr 0 kW 119 TotSicBatCur 0 A 120 TotSicDyEgyCntI 0 kWh 121 TotSicEgyCntIn 0 kWh 122 TotSicPvPwr 0 W 123 TotTmh 0 h 124 Vac 119.9 V
In case anyone is interested in what it looks like when the Sunny Island slews the frequency to throttle back power production on the Sunny Boys, here's an event capture showing the frequency shift:
We also got the Power over Ethernet security camera for remote monitoring installed inside the container, and it is up and working:
Attachment not found. Attachment not found.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
I just got off the phone with SMA tech support — the throttling back is because the target voltage has been reached. According to the AptTmRmg value, in around two and a half hours, the system should switch over to "Float".
So, it looks like everything is working as expected.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
It was another productive week:
A long trench with 4/0 AL Teck cable to bring power down to the shop.
The solar array is all fenced in to keep animals from chewing on our solar cables (and to meet code).
We also wired up all the Sunny Sensor Boxes and are preparing the building service entrances. Everything is almost done!
We're very happy with the system so far. Everything is working very well, now we just need to see how it works in the middle of the winter, after several weeks of rain and cloud.
P.S. For those of us who don't follow all of the posts on the NAWS forums, we have a subsequent thread talking about surge protection for our system - http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20959
Attachment not found. Attachment not found.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Our service entrance is now installed, complete with a Smart Meter.
We have power!
Attachment not found.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
congrats!!!8):D -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Congratulations!
Why do you need the meter? -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
So this is after all grid tied...? Or you just like the idea of smart meters so much you wanted your own?1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
be nice guys and let him have a chance to answer. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4David & Laura wrote: »The solar array is all fenced in to keep animals from chewing on our solar cables (and to meet code).
]
I hope that caging is a Gulf Islands Special requirement and not to become province wide...
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
Re #53 - Three reasons for the meter:
1. We wanted to have consumption metering for our guest house, so that we know how much power is being consumed when guests are visiting. It also provides an easy way to show/tell them how to know how much power they are using, if it ever becomes an issue.
2. We are planning to build a replacement and contingency fund for maintaining and repairing our power system over time by amortizing the total cost of the system over twenty-five years, and dividing it by the expected number of KWh produced, in order to obtain an estimated cost per KWh. We'll then bill ourselves for this power, and put the results into a savings account.
3. Since our small business office will also be located in the guest house, we wanted to have a revenue-grade meter to allow us to potentially write off our business-related power use against our taxes.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/slprtnr/rprtng/t2125/ln9220-eng.html
Re #54 - No grid anywhere near us... As for the smart meter, I've personally measured the RF off of them, and it's so low... Z-Wave, cell phones, cordless phones are all far higher emitters. It's a matter of principle, people should be way more concerned about the crap being put in their food then about smart meters. And certainly don't hold a cell phone directly against your head!
Plus, as a Ham operator, so I'm exposed to field strengths orders of magnitudes higher on a regular basis.
Re #56 - Full caging is not a code requirement. But protecting wires from animals and children is a code requirement.
It just was easier for us to just wrap a cage around the array instead of attaching it to the underside of the panels, and this way, it also prevents the sheep from using the array as a shelter.House: 2x SMA SI 6048 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 2x SMA SB 3000TL-US w 24x Sharp ND-H235Q2
Cabin: 1x Magnum MS4024 w 24x 2V DEKA Unigy II; 1x Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 w 6x Sharp ND-H235Q2; 1x 200 Watt Harris microhydro
Intertie: 1x SMA WB 3800; 1x Lambda GEN-600 DC Supply; 2x PSL pQube -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4David & Laura wrote: »2. We are planning to build a replacement and contingency fund for maintaining and repairing our power system over time by amortizing the total cost of the system over twenty-five years, and dividing it by the expected number of KWh produced, in order to obtain an estimated cost per KWh. We'll then bill ourselves for this power, and put the results into a savings account.
We do the same thing with our cars. We bill ourselves for every kilometer that we drive.
Since this is a smart meter, do you also have a unit that can read the numbers transmitted by the meter? -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
northguy,
now that's a good question as many have these meters on their homes and if the utility can pick up the signal to read them then why can't we? question is what frequency(s), how do you discern your signal from others, and how is it they are getting the info from the transmitted material? -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4northguy,
now that's a good question as many have these meters on their homes and if the utility can pick up the signal to read them then why can't we? question is what frequency(s), how do you discern your signal from others, and how is it they are getting the info from the transmitted material?
My guess is that all these numbers are encrypted. The electric company must also prevent spoofing from customers who might want to fake a reading to pay less. But I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers disn't think about security.
I don't know how they avoid clashing with each other. May be they don't transmit anything unless the reader requests an information. If that's the case, it may be hard to make the meter to transmit without a password.
This shouldn't be a problem for David, because there are no other meters around and he doesn't need to keep his electricity consumption a secret. -
Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4
picking it up will not allow one to modify the reading to the utility.
david&laura,
can you elaborate on getting the reading as to what's involved?
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