MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

waynefromnscanada
waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
Hey MX experts, your opinion please - -
Couple of times now I've caught my MX60 pulling a fast one. Apparently as designed, every so often it does a complete restart, which I understand is to clear any possible glitch or hangup in the softwear etc. Problem is. if it does this restart before the absorb has finished, when it comes back on a minute or whatever later and sees perhaps 13 volts, (down from the 14.6 or whatever the absorb was holding the batteries to, it "thinks" the batteries are fully charged so ends further charging on the spot. Ready or not it declares the batteries "full".
Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this.
Thanks.
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Comments

  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Every Inverter or Smart Charger I ever dealt with seems to want to do that. Once you break the absorb or bulk cycle it'll read the voltage when it re-sets and default to float. I once thought the Outback timers would pick back up where it left off, but even it will go to float.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Yeah, that sucks :(
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Yeah it does, because most won't initiate a new cycle till you drop the voltage to 25 Volts on 24 v system. That is not necessarily the actual battery voltage either, it's what the controller reads and it's not always calibrated to each other.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Wayne, Am certainly not a MXPert ...

    Do you know the Firmware version of this MX-60?

    What Auto-Reset Mode is selected?

    I have never seen this behavior on the MXes here (FW 5.10 & 5.11).

    Link to MX-60 Manual Rev C - 2007 for FW 5.10 & 5.11:
    http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/controller%20pdf%20folder/mx60manual.pdf

    On the MXes here, always see Bat Full on the normal end of Absorb, when the Vbat exceeds the Vfloat setting.

    Does your Absorb stage end by time only or EA/Time?

    Setting Auto-Restart Mode 0 may be a good experiment.

    Thanks, the MX is still a great box, IMHO, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Thanks Vic! Will check those things. Agree, MX is indeed an awesome CC in spite of the occasional little quirk.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    because most won't initiate a new cycle till you drop the voltage to 25 Volts on 24 v system.

    Doesn't the mx have an adjustable 'rebulk' setting? --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Doesn't the mx have an adjustable 'rebulk' setting? --vtMaps

    Yes, it does.

    Haven't got my Big Book of Outback with me so I can't tell you where it is, but it's in there somewhere!

    Along with some other more obscure programming variables like 24/25 hour length of day. :D

    The manual tells you all about this stuff, where to find it, and how to use it.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Thanks everyone for your comments and info, greatly appreciated. I'll eventually get to it. Today, under full sun and 28 C temps, I'm struggling in the heat constructing the rack for the new panels, 900 watts to add to the existing 1000 w. Rain tomorrow,
    Well, lunch is over - - back to work in the heat. Not complaining though, will be snowing all too soon.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Could also be related to Ending-Amps (do you have more than one charging source ?), or might be something to do with minimum-maximum Absorb time ??

    Did the Mx60 have Auto restart ? I don't remember. If version 5.1 or later, I don't know anything about those.

    boB
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -
    boB wrote: »
    Could also be related to Ending-Amps (do you have more than one charging source ?), or might be something to do with minimum-maximum Absorb time ??

    Did the Mx60 have Auto restart ? I don't remember. If version 5.1 or later, I don't know anything about those.

    boB
    Ah Bob, you may have hit the proverbial nail. There was a second charging source when this happened, and there will be an even bigger one when I get the new 900 watts PV install completed. I may have to disable the auto restart (if possible) and take a chance on it. I may also play with "end amps" setting.
    Yes, this one does a complete restart every so often. One time I knew how often. It did however apparently fail to do a restart last year, or was it the year before when it automatically went into EQ and locked up. Boiled the batteries all day, they were hot when I discovered the situation near the end of the charging day. Thankfully that has never happened since. Now have EQ set to manual.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    where are you planning to put the new pvs at wayne?
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    FWIW, The MX-60s here say something like 'Bad Abs' or similar when another charge source drags Vabs near/above that set in the MX. This is with FW Version 5.10/5.11. Have no recollection of what the previous FW versions may have noted as the reason.

    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -
    niel wrote: »
    where are you planning to put the new pvs at wayne?

    Hi Niel! I'm totally pooped! Have for a few days been working on building a rack (treated wood and all stainless steel fasteners) to hold the new PVs, got that finished and finally panels mounted on the rack yesterday. Rack has hinges half way up and today got the PVs wired into a fused combiner box now mounted on the back of the rack, 4 AWG cables connected in the combiner box to the solar shed about 50 feet away, and secured to rack, grounding done, and the biggest job of all - - hoisting the completed rack up to the hinges at the top of the 8 foot posts which are anchored to concrete in the ground, and braced to the reinforced roof of the baby barn. If the PVs go, they're taking the baby barn with them. lol Haven't set the tilt (elevation) yet, it got dark on me, so they're secured in the vertical for now. Weather calling rain tomorrow, so we shall see. Another 4 or 5 wks and it will be time to position them to the vertical for Winter anyway, so may just leave them vertical till Spring. We'll see. And yes, did it all by myself, there is no one to help, so you do what ya have to do. Thankfully I had my measurements correct, so the hinge halves fit right together and the pins went right in. There was no wind AND the whole works didn't come crashing to the ground before I had everything secured. Was I sweating? YES!!!! lol Might get the cables hooked into the switch and the TS-MPPT-60 tomorrow, time will tell.
    There, you're the first person in the world to know what I was up to today. Hahaha
    Ah yes, I had already repositioned the baby barn to provide support and protection (somewhat) from the North winds.
    And yes Vic, I expect to have some problems to sort out when I finally get two different PV arrays feeding two different charge controllers on the same battery bank. Will be interesting to see how it goes. The TS goes into over-voltage alarm when the MX drives the voltage above what the TS is expecting to see. One would think the left CC has no idea what the right cc is doing. Hahahaha
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    if possible a pic or 2.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -
    niel wrote: »
    if possible a pic or 2.
    Will email when finished
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Well Niel, today I finally finished the job of installing the new PVs (a few tweaks may be required as time goes by, time will tell).
    The MPP of the turbine is only a couple of volts different from that of the new PVs, so they play very well together when both fed into the same TS-MPPT-60. I tried this a couple of years ago with the MX-60, but it just caused the MX to get very confused trying to find the MPP. Once in a while it would hit paydirt, but mostly it just got confused and would lock onto a voltage that was far away from ideal.There's no such problem with the Morningstar. Also selected for no restarts of the MX, as the way it was, every time it would restart (1.5 hour cycle) it would declare Battery Full and stop charging if there was feed from the Morningstar. We'll see how things work the next sunny day. i expect some controller tweaks will be required as the bulk amps will now be roughly double what they were, thus driving up the battery voltage sooner, driving it into absorb sooner and triggering Float sooner, possibly before the batteries are fully charged. Will keep an eye on SG and go from there. Checked tonight, (after dark) and the turbine is back feeding 0.17 amps into the PVs. @ 26 volts, that's roughly 4.5 watts. I may or may not add a relay to disconnect the PVs at night when they're not producing. Or I may raise the diversion dam level a bit to push the turbine a little harder.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    if both power sources are paralleled before the cc then yes it is possible to backfeed a tad of power through the pvs. this might be good in the winter time and you might position the pvs more optimally as any snow could be melted by the backfed power. if objectionable you could put a relay in (will probably draw almost as much power) or use diodes. (again sets up loss)
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: MX-60 going to "Battery Full" before absorb finished - - -

    Well finally have the MX-60 and the TS-MPPT-60 controllers adjusted and fine tuned so they work very well together. Actually very happy with how well they now get along. And lots of power coming in. Ran the Mini-Split for a while last evening (after the sun had gone for the day), then ran it for over 2 hours early this morning. Fall is coming, getting cooler and need some heat from time to time. Finally the sun came up and I waited till around 10:00 AM, saw the voltage was coming up, so did a performance check. Delighted to see over 115 amps being dumped into the batteries. Before 12 Noon both controllers had transitioned to FLOAT and SG was up good. Regrets? Yes one. If I had the money I'd change everything over to 24 volts. Ah well, I'm lucky to have what I do. It's amazing how well it works. Especially for a 12 volt system.
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