first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #62
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    simple, will you need that 200 extra inverter watts? in either case full output is allot of dc input amps, but even moreso on the sensata. if you go the sensata route then let us know how it does for you good or bad.
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  • minisolar
    minisolar Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭
    #63
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    I don't think I will. I am going to get the Magnum.

    I found a great price (I think) on panels. Made by Solar world (I think Germany and USA), 235 watt each for $250 - with free two day shipping.... I will get two. Thoughts?

    Will this charge controller be able to handle them - http://www.solar-electric.com/tracc35solch.html
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  • minisolar
    minisolar Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭
    #64
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    I don't think it will... If I am right - they will give 39amps while this one is 35amps max..... Can I just get two 30amp PWM chargers? I found one for $30... Then connect each to one panel or does that influence more things?
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #65
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread
    minisolar wrote: »
    Can I just get two 30amp PWM chargers? I found one for $30... Then connect each to one panel or does that influence more things?

    I doubt those panels will work well with a PWM controller. It depends on the panel's Vmp, which I suspect is about 30 volts. If I am correct about the Vmp, you need a MPPT controller.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #66
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    vtMaps is correct: the Solarworld 235 Watts panels all seem to be 30 Vmp; they won't work properly (full power) on a PWM controller.
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  • minisolar
    minisolar Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭
    #67
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    http://www.solarworld-usa.com/system-designers/~/media/Global/PDFs/datasheets/sunmodule-solar-panel-235-poly-ds.pdf

    Then on what controller?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #68
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    You can predict the current potential using an MPPT type controller fairly easily:

    Array Watts * 0.77 / nominal system Voltage = likely maximum current output.

    So with two 235 Watt panels on a 12 Volt system you get (470 * 0.77 / 12) 30 Amps. The controller must be able to handle at least that much.

    Options here include the Morningstar TriStar 45 MPPT (they make a PWM version also - don't order the wrong one), the new Rogue 3048 will just manage 30 Amps, MidNite has a 30 Amp MPPT version not yet released, or any of the 60-80 Amp MPPT controllers which will allow for system expansion.
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  • minisolar
    minisolar Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭
    #69
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    Then can I get away with a 30amp MPPT?

    I don't see any 35amp ones and the only bigger that I found is 45amp which is quite jump in price.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #70
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread
    minisolar wrote: »
    Then can I get away with a 30amp MPPT?

    I don't see any 35amp ones and the only bigger that I found is 45amp which is quite jump in price.

    A 30 Amp controller will limit the output to 30 Amps. If that's all you need for the batteries (as in <300 Amp hours worth) no worries. But the array will have the potential for going over that under certain conditions; the 'extra' power will just be 'clipped' by the controller.

    Other than the Rogue and yet-to-be-announced MidNite I don't know of any 30 Amp MPPT controllers. At least not ones I would trust. :roll:
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #71
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    Hi minisolar.

    The one comment; SolarWorld made PVs with the 235 W rating with two different types of metal frames -- the 2.0 and the 2.5. If the PV modules that you are looking at buying are the 2.0 frame, they are compatible ONLY with top-down mounting. This may not be an issue for you at all, as many rails are designed to accommodate this type of mounting, but for more casual mounts, and home-made mounts, the rear mount is usually more flexible.

    Just in case you did not know about the several different SW frames. Again, this may not apply to the PVs that you are looking at, or may not be an issue for your mounting scheme. FWIW, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • minisolar
    minisolar Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭
    #72
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    Vic - thanks for thinking ahead for me. I appreciate it a lot - not easy to find people who think ahead for you! :)

    Cariboo-

    This CC should work with those 235W panels -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008KWPGAE/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0YH3YD8V3SMC99CEGJKC&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846

    Any experience with it? have you heard or seen someone use it?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #73
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    If you do a little research on this Tracer (not to be confused with Trace) controller you'll find the usual: people wondering if the low-dollar Chinese no-name can be "good enough". You will even find a few reviews on it, ranging from "works great" to "stopped working". Now if you compare that to known brands you see why it is so much less expensive; you're gambling on the quality of the unit.

    As well the more expensive units are more flexible in their control/adaptability; it is one thing to be able to switch between gel/AGM/FLA batteries and quite another to be able to actually set charging Voltage to a tenth as needed.

    I guess you could say it comes down to "are you a gambler or an investor"?
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  • minisolar
    minisolar Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭
    #74
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    I came to this conclusion yesterday with the help of a good friend. As much as this panels (235watt) are a great deal - I am better off going with this kit http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Solar-Panel-400W-Mono/dp/B00BSZUHRC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377612706&sr=8-1&keywords=renogy+400w

    Which is what I planned originally. I won't buy this kit exactly but - buy the panels on ebay ($144 each vs $162 on amazon) then get that PWM controller that is made for them by the same brand. For $600 I have more power than I really need. Going the MPPT route and stronger panels will give me more power, that I really don't need, and eat up another $200 from my budget. A no brainer.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #75
    Re: first post - help with connecting panel and good build thread

    Going by the picture in that link (it only gives specs on the panels) I would note two things: questionable quality of the charge controller (although usually low-dollar PWM controllers are less of a risk than the same in MPPT) and they appear to connect all panels in parallel using 'Y' adapters which is not good as there are then no fuses between panels.

    As inexpensive as solar has become people still try to do it cheap, and cheap is not the same as inexpensive. :roll:
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