Building new Off Grid Home in Panama

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  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Have looked at my battery options and have opted to go with the US Battery L16 RE 2V XC for a 48V system with a single string of batteries. Have already put a deposit and these batteries will be delivered to the house, commissioned, in September. I have a few reasons of which the most prevalent are: single string, company in Panama City for warranty issues, the company brings the batteries in and delivers, have read that you can operate the string with one cell removed for replacement if necessary.

    Have 2 components of the system now, batteries and generator. Will be ordering the rest of the components soon.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • DavidinNica
    DavidinNica Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Hi Panama Retiree! I wish I'd seen your thread sooner but unfortunately I rarely visit this site for more than just searching threads for troubleshooting problems if I can't get through to tech support in the states. I don't currently live offgrid myself but I have helped many people down that road here in this south-western corner of Nicaragua. Perhaps some of my experience can help?
    We have a slightly dryer climate up here than you and a shorter raining season plus very good winds 8 months of the year. For PV system design we work off a 5 hour yearly peak sun hour average for the year. Obviously we get significantly more than that in the dry season. We've found that the good "window" for power production is between 8am to 4pm here and site PV accordingly with any Wh harvested before or after that window a bonus. Really the strongest sun hours are 9am to 3pm(Central American time -1.00 hr from you). I've found performance of the systems to be more than adequate this way during the raining season as we usually have dry sunny mornings becoming cloudier as the day progresses with evening/night thunderstorms. There are rare occasional (say 10-20 days in total) spells of a few days when it'll rain most of the day and be thoroughly overcast. Unless it is heavy rain I have always been surprised by how much the panels still produce with the tropical sun down here! For Nicaragua I have found the NREL solar and wind maps to be a fairly good guide before taking into account site specific issues. I have found that tilting panels at Latitude magnetic south(no declination here!) provide the best all around results here in Nica though I have toyed with the idea of less tilt and a bit more west to see if that would provide better (sunny morning) raining season performance. I have yet to try it! I am very interested in how your array plan will work out. Will you monitor each separately?
    For generators I've liked the Honda EU series on smaller systems or even cheaper Yamahas but I prefer the diesels from around 6kWh and up. Get the right one and it'll outlast the gas egine counterpart many times over plus not guzzle fuel. I think the Kubota Lowboy series is a pretty good setup for a backup genset to solar and not too extravagant. I haven't tried a Hyundai yet but I'll be looking them up now for sure! Not sure if there's a local dealer. For Kubota there's the dealer plus other importers who sell the tractors here. Importing can be a huge pain in Nicaragua so it helps to have some local support.
    On inverters, I've found Outback to be excellent for many situations and they've been a bit more rugged(bug resistant too! So important in the tropics....). The real clincher is that not only have Outback been great to deal with and have provided great warranty support for me down here from up in N. America but the inverters are very field reparable. Xantrex have left a lot to be desired in service and support(even local) while their inverters have been a pain to repair/warranty. I see that you're leaning toward an XW.... is that because of gen support? I note that you can achieve this with the G series Outback and the Radian line also. Just an FYI.
    I haven't seen mentioned on this thread SG and the tropics for batteries. All the batteries shipped to here seem to be shipped activated and with higher SGs. How are you accounting for this in your battery setup? Are the US Battery's you're getting "Tropical"? I've seen a lot of the 6vdc golf cart type in the past and they looked very similar to the Crown equivalent but they didn't seem to last too well. I've had more luck with Trojans down here for some reason(just not their AGMs!). Anyway I've enjoyed reading this thread and I look forward to seeing the rest of the system take shape. Good luck with your Offgrid journey!
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    Have looked at my battery options and have opted to go with the US Battery L16 RE 2V XC for a 48V system with a single string of batteries.
    <snip>
    Have 2 components of the system now, batteries and generator. Will be ordering the rest of the components soon.

    Congratulations on the batteries... I think it's a good choice. You don't yet have any way to charge them... that can be a bit anxiety provoking.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Congratulations on the batteries... I think it's a good choice. You don't yet have any way to charge them... that can be a bit anxiety provoking.

    --vtMaps

    You are correct. May have to put them in strings of 12V and put a normal charger on them just to keep them topped up. An interim measure for sure, but can keep me out of trouble.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • energisol
    energisol Registered Users Posts: 2
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Hi!
    Thanks for share the information about your project here in Panama.
    Would you be so kind to send me the address of the company that distribute US battery products here in Panama?
    A little I have to say about your project is that won´t harm anybody to know about the law No.37 of June 10th, 2013 of the Republic of Panama about incentives for solar energy. If your capacity is below 500 KW you project is clasified as "PEQUEÑA CENTRAL PARTICULAR" and has the benefit to import free of duties and taxes your solar panels, batteries, inverters and others you need like wires, breakers, fuses, charge controllers, arrestors, etc... In some products is up to 15% for import and extra 7% of ITBMS...
    Despite the fact there are already comercial agreements with the US already in force from 2012, every battery I bought from local importers from US manufacturers did not reflect any change in the price. Oh yeah! lead prices always sky rocket...
    Too complicated? Sure like anything here in Panama. But What your doing with this trend is helping others with tools that led them to make better choices for their future projects.
    Your case is Offgrid so there make no sense mention the rules for grid-tie interconections wich in my opinion is something that can not be overlooked.
    Sorry....Oh yes...US battery right here...is good. Please let me now where they are...
    Thanks in advance for the info and good luck....
    Ruzzo
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    energisol wrote: »
    Hi!
    Thanks for share the information about your project here in Panama.
    Would you be so kind to send me the address of the company that distribute US battery products here in Panama?
    A little I have to say about your project is that won´t harm anybody to know about the law No.37 of June 10th, 2013 of the Republic of Panama about incentives for solar energy. If your capacity is below 500 KW you project is clasified as "PEQUEÑA CENTRAL PARTICULAR" and has the benefit to import free of duties and taxes your solar panels, batteries, inverters and others you need like wires, breakers, fuses, charge controllers, arrestors, etc... In some products is up to 15% for import and extra 7% of ITBMS...
    Ruzzo

    Thanks for the info. I've been looking for this information for the past few weeks.

    I am dealing with Battery Giant in Panama City:

    Hariken Singh
    Plaza New York
    Local 13
    Ciudad de Panama, Republica de Panama
    264-1111

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Visiting the daughter and son-in-law in Victoria and have been browsing Home Depot for items I may need/want. One of the items I have looked at are grounding plates. The one I found was approximately 1/4 inch thick by 12 inch by 20 inch galvanized. I have used this type of grounding plate before. I would think a similar plate or larger would be adequate for our solar system grounding, say 3' by 3'.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    I believe it will work OK... How saline is the soil (more salt, faster corrosion).

    Here is a summary of the various grounding systems:

    http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/about-electrical-grounding/what-are-some-different-types-of-grounding-electrodes.php

    Interestingly, a ground rod/plate should be replaced every 5-10 years... Anybody ever replace an earth ground other than during a remodel when the panel was moved?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    BB. wrote: »
    Interestingly, a ground rod/plate should be replaced every 5-10 years... Anybody ever replace an earth ground other than during a remodel when the panel was moved?

    -Bill

    Bill

    Here in Canada it would probably take an act of Parliament to have someone change a ground rod/plate. I liken this to renewing shingles on a roof, even when shingles look like a Chinese pagoda, and there are no leaks, no renewing.

    How about changing the ground rod/plate when you buy a house in excess of ten years old, probably not.

    I would submit that even the most conscientious would be challenged to follow all the guidelines, besides these are only guidelines, right?

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    most times plates are used in a more temporary setting or in the case of terrain that a ground rod can't be driven into very well such as a rocky terrain. 8-10ft copper plated rods are preferred, but if you opt for a plate then bury it a few feet down if at all possible to enable a better depth and better soil contact area being both the bottom and the top will be contacting with the soil.

    as with rods you could tie several plates together too with at least #6 bare copper wire to also increase the grounding area.
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Intend to bury it at least two feet down, and couple two together. I also think that it will be easier to source plate steel down here than copper plated rods.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Picked up a copy of "A Wind Turbine Recipe Book" by Hugh Piggott for some lite reading. Interesting read, not going to venture into wind power at this time where I am at, but wanted to get more of the "skinny" on wind power. I know a little about solar power, but I found out I know a lot less about wind power.

    Cheers :cool:

    Ernest
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    BB. wrote: »
    I believe it will work OK... How saline is the soil (more salt, faster corrosion).

    Here is a summary of the various grounding systems:

    http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/about-electrical-grounding/what-are-some-different-types-of-grounding-electrodes.php

    Interestingly, a ground rod/plate should be replaced every 5-10 years... Anybody ever replace an earth ground other than during a remodel when the panel was moved?

    -Bill

    Bill

    Soil down here is great, just put something into the ground and it grows.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    Bill

    Soil down here is great, just put something into the ground and it grows.

    Cheers

    Ernest

    So if you stick a grounding rod in you get a copper tree? That could be useful! :D
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    So if you stick a grounding rod in you get a copper tree? That could be useful! :D

    Close, The country has two of the largest undeveloped copper deposits in the world.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama
    Close, The country has two of the largest undeveloped copper deposits in the world.

    Having seen the aftermath of mining here in BC, don't be too quick on development.
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Been a while since I posted here. Still trying to get information on the new law regarding the import of RE equipment into Panama.

    Been reading about the Outback PSX-240 and how it can help with system performance. Looked up the document on this item and it has a step-up or step-down wiring diagram. It details that the step-down function is used for balancing a system. Having difficulty understanding exactly how the wiring works, but will get it. Think this may be a good addition to the system.

    Also found a solar panel installation system that is for the type of roof material used down here. Will resize the file and get it uploaded - it's about 950kb.

    Not much else happening, it's raining, a little cool, but not unpleasant.

    Cheers

    Ernest
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    It would be more accurate to say that for balancing output the autotransformer is used in a "robbing Peter to pay Paul" configuration: black to L1, red to L2, both neutrals to neutral. This puts the 240 Volt wiring across 240 Volts and allows current to be pulled fairly equally from both halves on either 120 Volt leg.
  • energisol
    energisol Registered Users Posts: 2
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Hi...
    Since 2004, most solar energy installer in PC, import RE equipment free of duties and taxes. The new law No. 37 of 2013 is intended for pv systems but the incentives were the same. The chapter IV incentives in the article 20 offer a benefits of free import duties and taxes and made a list of the equipment considered as pv equipment.

    No.1 Solar water heaters
    No. 2 Spare parts for solar water heaters
    No.3 Solar Panels
    No.4 Deep cycle batteries
    No.5 Power Inverters
    No.6 Not specified and to be define later (here you can add the BOS equipment like charge controllers, OCPD's, wires, lightning arrestors and others like softwares to monitor the system).

    The "CORREDOR DE ADUANAS" you hire have to render this document linked here

    http://www.energia.gob.pa/pdf_doc/Formulario-de-Aplicacion-de-Importacion.pdf

    to "LA SECRETARIA DE ENERGIA" with anticipation to the cargo ETA. Other documents are also required for the process
    1. Specs sheets from every equipment manufacturer, including a nice picture of the product. This can be in english.
    2. A simple sketch of the installation, but nothing fancy
    3. List with the quantities of every equipment.
    4. Every Original Comercial Invoice
    5. Copy of you passport
    6. Pre-declaration of Custom
    The best way to do this is buy everything needed and bonded somewhere like Miami Fl. Then bring it like LCL cargo to Panama City.
    The "CORREDOR DE ADUANAS" cost around 150.00 USD few year ago. There are plenty maritime cargo services via MIAMI, but pay attention here. I heard many customers complaining about delays and hidden fees.

    Best Regards
    Ruzzo
  • Panamretiree
    Panamretiree Solar Expert Posts: 278 ✭✭
    Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

    Ruzzo

    Thanks for the information. Will get at this directly, and will contact my customs broker as well.

    Cheers

    Ernest