Spanish renewables insanity

stephendv
stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Recently the magnificent spanish government released their new energy policy, here are the highlights that affect renewables:

1. While the PV industry was waiting for a net-metering type system as used by the US and Aus, the wise ones had other plans. Grid tied systems based on self-consumption are now permitted, except that YOU have to PAY the electric company 8cents/kWh for whatever energy you CONSUME FROM YOUR OWN PANELS. Normal electricity rates are about 20cents/kWh. But not to worry, you can now inject the excess into the grid, for which you get....... nothing. :grr

2. If you installed a PV system or invested in a PV farm during the boom, where the government said that it would pay you 35cents/kWh for whatever your PV generated GUARANTEED by the gov for 25 years. Well you're sh*t out of luck, because that no longer applies. Your profit will now be capped at 7% of the original investment. What's that? you took out a loan at 6% to pay for the investment? too bad. Your 25 year investment plan, now returns 1%. :grr

More details in English here: http://www.pv-tech.org/news/spanish_government_facing_court_action_over_cuts_to_solar_support
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Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy

    Right now utility company heads all over North America are reading that idiocy and laughing with glee.

    Looks like another incentive for being totally off-grid (unless they think they can charge you for energy you produce that way too).
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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy

    Kind of sounds similar to what is being proposed in Arizona for APS customers, either flat fees, for being grid connected with solar back feed or even charges for going off grid but having grid available. "Stranding the grid".

    Waiting for the gov't to figure out how much in tax money they are loosing to figure out a law to meter and collect Tax on that too!
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy

    It is just amazing what goes on even in Spain.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy

    Are these electric companies in Spain owned by the government or are they independent?
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Looks like another incentive for being totally off-grid (unless they think they can charge you for energy you produce that way too).

    I wouldn't put anything past them.

    While the net-metering proposal was in limbo, a number of people decided to install grid-supported off-grid setups that effectively use the grid as a backup generator, but feed nothing back into it. Right now, it's not clear whether those installations will also fall under the new law, i.e. they spent all that money on batteries + inverters and may now have to pay the leccy company for using their own power.
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Are these electric companies in Spain owned by the government or are they independent?

    They are private companies, but how independent they are is murky territory. There are 5 big energy companies that are effectively a mafia as they collude to fix prices and push other companies out of the market. I think the problems are cultural/historical to some extent. Remember that Spain was ruled by a dictator for 40 years, ending only in 1973. So while there currently is a democracy a lot of the power structures and institutions that Franco formed are still in place today. And along with that comes a belief that everything must be controlled centrally - distributed power (both kinds) seems to be a very scary concept.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy
    stephendv wrote: »
    Remember that Spain was ruled by a dictator for 40 years, ending only in 1973.
    Who is still dead, by the way. :D
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Spanish renewables insanity
    stephendv wrote: »
    Your profit will now be capped at 7% of the original investment. What's that? you took out a loan at 6% to pay for the investment? too bad. Your 25 year investment plan, now returns 1%. :grr

    It's worse than that if you took out a regular 6% loan. With compound interest you will end up paying significantly more than 106% of the principle.
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  • wingnutter
    wingnutter Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭
    #9
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Right now utility company heads all over North America are reading that idiocy and laughing with glee.

    Looks like another incentive for being totally off-grid (unless they think they can charge you for energy you produce that way too).

    Sorry to jump in but I have to spread the word, the future is here and it aint bright!

    April fool come early?

    Well that is exactly what they are doing in Spain, dont know how they are going to acheive it, but if you dont connect your offgrid supply to the grid where it is feasable to do so (at your cost) the fine can be up to 30 million Euros!

    Now I know you are thinking this is total BS try a quick web search on "solar tax Spain" and be amazed at what goes on over here in Spain, they now tax the sun.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Spanish renewables insantiy
    wingnutter wrote: »
    Well that is exactly what they are doing in Spain, dont know how they are going to acheive it, but if you dont connect your offgrid supply to the grid where it is feasable to do so (at your cost) the fine can be up to 30 million Euros!

    That's not quite accurate. Off-grid systems can remain off-grid and are not affected by the new energy reforms. The systems that will be subject to fines are a special type of grid-connected system, more details here: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20880-The-War-On-Solar&p=167531#post167531
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  • simon87
    simon87 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #11
    Re: Spanish renewables insanity

    Man that's bad. I really hope this is not comparable to what could come true in about 2 months in Germany - there's a new alternative-energy-law planned.
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  • hfrik
    hfrik Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭
    #12
    Re: Spanish renewables insanity

    Well it is still in draft state, and I guess the likelihood it survives is low, especialy if you look at the violations of spanish constitution and piles of european law involved. How moch chances to survive would a regulation in Arizona have if it violates federal law and the constitution at the same time?
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Spanish renewables insanity

    There's a light at the end of the tunnel. The National Energy Commission has released their report strongly criticising the new proposal for being contrary to EU directives on energy efficiency and for making solar economically unviable. So there's still a chance the proposed law is changed.
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