Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Good question. I'm going out there tomorrow (I think) so can check.

The reason I ask is because straight-grade oils are not that common for automotive anymore. But very common for diesels. I use Cenex Superlube 518 SAE 30 in all my off-road diesels because they are generally run at wide-open throttle for hours on end. I've never had any problems using it in the older Honda GX engines with the internal oil sensor. But the newer iGX electronic engine has problems with it. The stuff clings to parts so well that it coats the oil sensor and the sensor stops working and shuts the engine down.

So I'm using Phillips Super HDII 15W-40 (which is what I run in all my trucks year 'round) in the Honda iGX on our EM4000SX generator now. No problems with the low oil sensor with the Super HDII.
--
Chris

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

That's the same thing they got in the manual for the iGX engine in our EM-series genset. The thing is, based on warranty problems the race guys have had with engines in the EU2000/EU3000, which are both very popular with racers for trailer power, Honda will warranty the first engine when it goes prematurely (installing the second engine since new). The second engine that fails (actually the third engine in the unit since new) they'll tell you it's not covered due to "abuse" and they'll blame it on the type of oil used - UNLESS you have proof that you have been using their GN4 oil in it.

In the US there is legal issues with a manufacturer requiring a specific brand of oil. They can't do that, and I don't remember what or how that legal issue got put into place. But when it comes to actual warranty coverage they can get around it by a shop tech tearing the engine down, pointing at a failed part and saying "see - wrong oil used in it".
--
Chris

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Note that "premium-quality" gets them an "instant out" on warranty claims; they can just say anything but their oil doesn't meet that requirement.

That's the kicker. It's possible Honda has made some engineering changes to make the engine suitable for the "energy conserving" low-ZDDP oils. But I doubt it. And air-cooled engines with flat-tappet cams NEED that zinc and phos for proper lubrication. It would be nice if Honda would publish an actual spec or test like Caterpillar, Mack, Cummins, Detroit, et al do for diesel oils. But they don't. All you get is a generic "recommendation" that has more holes in it than a sieve.

The basic assumption that Honda makes is that when they sell a piece of equipment with an engine on it that it will get "normal" use. Meaning maybe 50 hours of run time in a season. And it will last long enough so the warranty is not an issue - without having to spend a bunch of R & D money on testing and specs. So along comes somebody that puts the equipment and engine to the test and runs it 500+ hours in a season - probably under severe duty conditions - and then the problems show up. And that's what I've seen with racers. They pull into the pits on Friday night and start that generator up and it runs 24/7 for the whole weekend until Sunday afternoon - usually a unit that's sized too small for the loads. And nobody even looks at it unless it quits and their trailer goes dead. I'd venture that some of them get used that way for the whole season and never even gets the oil changed in it.
--
Chris

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

Tony, yes that's true. It would just be nice if the small engine industry got together like the motorcycle industry did and outright tell people that the current "energy conserving" oils for cars aren't suitable for air-cooled engines. That's why the JASO 4T standard was developed for oils for motorcycle engines after they started this "energy conserving" nonsense in the automotive industry.

Power equipment with small air-cooled engines is mostly considered throwaway stuff these days. Remember the old days when we used to run a Briggs 5 horse rototiller engine until it knocked and turned the air blue from oil smoke? Then tear it down, hone it .010" over and put a new piston and rings in it and run it for another 10 years? Nobody does that anymore - today you just throw it away and go get another one.
--
Chris

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

The amount of pollution an engine produces has nothing to do with its longevity. Nor vice-versa.

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Yeah, but I'll tell you right now that won't be the Honda EU2000 or GX engine. I got an old 4 horse Witte that was built in 1931 and we used to use it on the farm for running the sawmill when I was a kid. I ended up with it and it still runs fine and I start it up a couple times a year and run it to keep it limbered up. That engine will still be running in 2050 - I guarantee you it will. It's made out of 600 lbs of cast iron and you can fit a whole Honda EU2000 generator in the bore.

They don't even make a 4 horse engine anymore that would run our old sawmill because the horses these days are ponies while the horses in them old engines were Belgians.
--
Chris

Had a Witte. Also a Hercules, Jaegar, United, Elmira ... and even several B&S made the right way. The B&S on my 5kW gen is already junk and it has no place near the hours the Hondas have on them.

Some companies due still make 'em to last, but you pay for it. Too much buying the cheap equipment to "save money" - like no-name charge controllers/inverters. If you think the available quality of the name brands is bad, you should see the fly-by-nighters: any label will do if it sells the product.

My Toyota might be around in 50 years. Although it's already got 328,000 miles (yes miles) on it. On the other hand the Ford has chewed its way through 1.1 million klicks. Don't start to think I have exceptional luck with motors either; I've had my share of ones that went "kerblooie" far before their time. Strike a line through the name and never buy again.

Re: Troubleshooting Honda 2000i generator

vtmaps wrote: »

Chris, why the evolution in thought?

I have gotten to see the exchange between the racers that I see wrecking engines all the time (and they burn out inverters too) and the local Honda dealer refusing warranty coverage on more than one engine if they use it. I don't believe that for normal operation that the Mobil 1 synthetics will hurt anything. But if you have an engine problem under warranty and Honda refuses to cover it based on the oil used, the only recourse you have is to go to your oil manufacturer and have them either cover it or provide proof to Honda that their lubricant meets Honda's requirements. Mobil 1 will not do that for their "energy conserving" oils in air-cooled engines, as I found out. They will do it for their Mobil 1 4T racing blends that have adequate amounts of ZDDP in them.

All the diesel oil makers are really proud of their diesel oils (which contains ridiculous amounts of zinc and phos) and will stand behind them, even providing oil analysis services for both preventive maintenance and engine failure purposes.

So it's a grey area where Honda is concerned. They don't publish an actual spec or test, just a vague "recommendation" that gives them an "out" on the warranty coverage.

Edit:
It's a grey area with some diesel oils too, I should mention. As I said, I had a problem with Cenex oils (which are formulated for off-road duty, for the most part) with causing our Honda EM4000SX to start, then shut down because the stuff coated the low oil sensor and it thought there was no oil in it and it would quit. I have used the Cenex oil in my older GX engines with the internal sensor with no problems. But the iGX engine's externally serviceable sensor evidently doesn't like it. I'm not sure how that sensor works - being it has a single wire going to it, and if you disconnect the wire the engine runs fine, it must require a ground to shut the engine down if there's no oil in it. So the Cenex oil's higher amounts of some metals that are added to oils to enhance their lubricating qualities must cause it to ground and shut the engine off.

But despite all that I still like the Mobil 1 synthetics for cold weather because there's a noticeable difference in how easy the engine starts and how much it labors when it's cold during warmup. But if you ask Mobil 1, they specifically recommend their 4T blend for air-cooled engines and motorcycles - not the "energy conserving" blends with the SAE 5W-30 and 10W-30 grades.
--
Chris