Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

Dolly Bee
Dolly Bee Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Is there any reason to have all the batteries (4) facing in the same direction ???
"Looks Normal ??"
"Prevent someone from making incorrect connections ?? "

Reason - I can make shorter battery cables if 2 batteries are facing one way and the other 2 are facing in the opposite direction.

I can't think of any reason why this would be a problem - BUT - before I measure for cable lengths, figured I better ask first.

thanks
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    It does not matter. :D
    Mine sit two by two with positive on one end of one set and negative on that end of the other: a 'U' shape that made for easy wiring.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,590 admin
    #3
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    Ease of service is important... You will be wiring the batteries up once (hopefully) over the next 5-10 years--But you will checking them/electrolyte/etc. every week or four for the next 5-10 years.

    Don't have cables crossing battery caps, etc.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    My batteries are not aligned in the same direction, but they are positioned so that every single cell is aligned with the magnetic field of the Earth.

    I have chosen this particular placement scheme because it minimized the length of the cables as well as the space taken by the battery box.
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  • Dolly Bee
    Dolly Bee Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #5
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    Thanks Guys

    Welllllllllll, Not exactly Bill.

    This is going to be our portable business trailer. Going to the cooler mountains for the summer (the plan).

    So - since DH is 91 in August (Drs & others put him at 72 = very active) - not possible for us to lift trunk with 4 Trojan T105's in it. (I'm Lots & Lots younger - thank you very much) :p:p Each of us can handle 1 battery at a time so all is not lost. grin.

    The battery trunk will be put outside beside the trailer - but very close to Classic & Inverter & Trimetric inside.

    Any hoo - the batteries will have to be connected and not 2 times a year.

    A U setup like Cariboocoot said was what I was wanting to do.

    Not running wires over the covers was a good reminder.
    You'd think I'd remember that - the little motorhome has that d____d battery tie down bar across the caps so I'll have to take it off to check the cells every time. So much I have learned here an since I started all these solar projects. thanks for that really.
    However, while lots is finally falling into place mentally and physically, my brain is getting fuzzy and I might not have thought of not crossing the caps until later and been most annoyed with myself for forgetting.
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    My batteries are not aligned in the same direction, but they are positioned so that every single cell is aligned with the magnetic field of the Earth.

    You did what? Maybe that's why they won't charge up and the Northern Lights have been more powerful lately :p
    --
    Chris
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    Does not matter what direction they are facing. Lots of fork truck batteries are turned different ways to fit the battery case, it's just fine as long as golf cart batteries are upright.
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Mine sit two by two with positive on one end of one set and negative on that end of the other: a 'U' shape that made for easy wiring.
    But won't that wear away the copper in the outside part of the turn as the electrons zipping around that U turn at high seed are pushed to the outside of the bend by centrifugal force? I suppose if you attached a strong magnet to the wire it might keep the electrons more centered within the wire. :D
    Sorry Coot, just couldn't help myself. Hahahaha
    On a more serious note, good thing I already have new batteries on order. This morning I removed 4 of the 6 L-16 batteries from my bank. They all have good SG, they all have good voltage until anything more than a very light load is applied, at which time their voltages instantly drop to 5 volts, only to spring back when the inverter crashes. Thought first my inverter had gone south, as loads that only yesterday were fine, this morning would instantly shut down the inverter. The DC voltage drop was too brief to catch with the meter, but slowly adding small loads proved the problem. Sigh of relief! Now just have the two remaining somewhat operational batteries carrying the day, hoping to nurse them along till the new ones are ready early August. For those who don't know, my bank of East Pen L-16's are 11 years old, so they don't owe me anything at all.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    You did what? Maybe that's why they won't charge up and the Northern Lights have been more powerful lately :p

    That's right. We haven't really seen Nothern Lights for years, but then they started again last winter.

    I think when they were building the garage (where batteries are now) they wanted to align it with the house, which is straight North-South, and probably used compass for that. That's how it got aligned with the magnetic field. Cannot think of any other explanation.
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    That's right. We haven't really seen Nothern Lights for years, but then they started again last winter.

    I think when they were building the garage (where batteries are now) they wanted to align it with the house, which is straight North-South, and probably used compass for that. That's how it got aligned with the magnetic field. Cannot think of any other explanation.

    Well, let's just say Nikola Tesla would be proud :cool:
    --
    Chris
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    But won't that wear away the copper in the outside part of the turn as the electrons zipping around that U turn at high seed are pushed to the outside of the bend by centrifugal force? I suppose if you attached a strong magnet to the wire it might keep the electrons more centered within the wire.



    Wayne, No Problema here as Coot and I are much closer to the Equator, gosh we are almost in Mexico compared to NG, and we have more centripetal force down here, good curves do not see any escaping electrons, at least I haven't seen any lately...:-)
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    westbranch wrote: »
    Wayne, No Problema here as Coot and I are much closer to the Equator, gosh we are almost in Mexico compared to NG, and we have more centripetal force down here

    The further south you get, though, all that centripetal force could make the electrolyte collect on one side of the cells and cause horizontal stratification if the batteries aren't correctly arranged :roll:
    --
    Chris
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    The further south you get, though, all that centripetal force could make the electrolyte collect on one side of the cells and cause horizontal stratification if the batteries aren't correctly arranged :roll:
    --
    Chris

    But doesn't it create a vortex helping in electrolyte mixing?
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    solar_dave wrote: »
    But doesn't it create a vortex helping in electrolyte mixing?

    At the equator there is no vortex. If you go north the vortex spins in an opposite direction than if you go south. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    solar_dave wrote: »
    But doesn't it create a vortex helping in electrolyte mixing?

    Gosh - I don't think so. I think the Dreaded Cell Vortex only happens at the poles where the battery basically spins around in a circle while the electrolyte remains in alignment with NorthGuy's magnetic lines of force.
    --
    Chris
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    I thought that there would be VERTICAL stratification of High density electrons and the lighter ones left behind(on the other side)?
    Uh Oh....Is this a dark side vs Lite side situation?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #17
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    westbranch wrote: »
    I thought that there would be VERTICAL stratification

    It's verical on the equator, but it gets progressively more horizontal as you move further North (or South).
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #18
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    It's verical on the equator, but it gets progressively more horizontal as you move further North (or South).

    So, what you're saying is that at the equator the best placement would be with the battery on its side with the caps facing either north or south to prevent the heaviest electrolyte from flying out the hole when you remove the cap?
    --
    Chris
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    just put a tin foil hat on the batteries (insulated of course) and put them on a lazy susan and spin them the other way.:confused::p
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    My strangest warning ever:

    Honestly, guys; you do need to include the smilies because there are people out there who may be reading this and taking it seriously. They'll either believe it, or think you're all nuts. :p
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #21
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Honestly, guys; you do need to include the smilies because there are people out there who may be reading this and taking it seriously. They'll either believe it, or think you're all nuts. :p

    Well, none of us that have moved off-grid are quite sane in the first place. I even got a blonde off-grid wife that calls conduits "electric pipes". The one time when her sister came here from Sweden to visit, listening to her explain to her sister how the electricity gets from solar panels and wind turbines thru them "electric pipes" to the house to run stuff was one of the most hilarious things I ever witnessed :confused:

    --
    Chris
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #22
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    My strangest warning ever:

    think you're all nuts. :p

    I resemble that remark!

    I just figured that NAWS is so close to Sedona that the Vortex had to be in effect.! :D:D:D :p
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #23
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Well, none of us that have moved off-grid are quite sane in the first place. I even got a blonde off-grid wife that calls conduits "electric pipes". The one time when her sister came here from Sweden to visit, listening to her explain to her sister how the electricity gets from solar panels and wind turbines thru them "electric pipes" to the house to run stuff was one of the most hilarious things I ever witnessed :confused:

    But conduits are pipes!
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #24
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    i know i'm a bit nuts.:p
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,590 admin
    #25
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    I'm not crazy--My Mom had me tested.

    -Bill :p
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #26
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??

    that's getting a bit borderline northguy. careful.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #27
    Re: Battery placement - stupid blond quesstion ??
    niel wrote: »
    that's getting a bit borderline northguy. careful.

    Sorry. You're right. I deleted it.
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