Would you spend your money on this??

Rkg76 · July 2013

Hi All,

I have the opportunity to buy a used 48 volt system approx 2 years old and these are the components: (this is the kijiji ad)

Due to changing life circumstances, we will be connecting our home to Hydro in the coming months.

This means that we are looking to sell the system which has been powering our home for the last 2+ years.

This will include everything:
- 646 watts of solar panels (3x 215 watt REC panels, including adjustable steel pole mount)
- 4.4kw inverter with electrical mount (#MAGNUM MS4448PAE and # MNE175STM-L),
- charge controller (OUTBACK FLEXMAX 60),
- control system (MAGNUM ME-RC50)
- 8 Trojan L16 deep cycle batteries (for approximately 17.5kw of energy storage),
- a backup generator (Champion 4000w/3000w)
- all the necessary wiring, mounts, etc.

This has been a great stand-alone power system which was previously installed by Solar Solutions in Winnipeg. It is currently in full operation at our residence in South Eastern Manitoba and we would be happy to show it in its full capacity.

These are all high-quality components (mostly made in Canada and USA) and carries a higher price than many of the cheaper foreign-made solar systems on the market (for good reason!)

My question would be to all of you experienced off grid users, would $5,000 CAD be a good price for all of this (this is what I could get it for)

I priced out the main components (not including wiring, pole mount, generator) and the stuff came to between $7,500 and $8,000 USD so it would seem on the surface $5,000 with all the wiring and back-up gen and pole mount would be reasonable.

Thanks

Cariboocoot · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

I can tell you there is no way 646 Watts of panel kept two parallel strings of Trojan L16's (minimum 640 Amp hour) charged on their own. On a 48 Volt system that much panel would manage about 10 Amps. To me this indicates chronic undercharging, so I'd say the batteries are likely scrap (never trust used batteries to be good).

Otherwise, take a look at the new prices of the same equipment. About $650 in panels, $2,000 for the inverter, $500 for the controller, $500 for the Champion gen. The mounts and wiring will be "salvage if you can" because every installation is different. Does this look like $5,000 worth of used equipment to you?

When purchased two years ago it all cost more.

NorthGuy · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

If they were off-grid with 650W of panels and with 420AH @48V battery bank, good chances are that their batteries were severely undercharged during these two years and may be worthless by now.

icarus · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

Especially if he has been running the 4 kw inverter anywhere close to it's capacity!

Price it for the price of the used panels, maybe $.50/watt, 1/3 price for the inverter and the genny. CC etc. (gott to factor in the fact the PV is near where you are, so freight is not an issue, as it might be for other panels.

Icarus

Rkg76 · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

Thanks for your thoughts....I will have to think about going down the used equipment route...the batteries def do scare me!

H2SO4_guy · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

I would bid $2000 - $2200. If I was buying new and want any decent power, 48 volts is a much better way to go.

Skip

westbranch · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

I would inquire about what has been powered and how many people are in the house, kids are tougher on systems than adults, etc JMHO

Rkg76 · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

Is there any reliable way for me to tell how much life the batteries might have left in them?

Rkg76 · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

Here is the info I received back from some further questions...

For a quick answer to your inquiries:

We have a 48v battery bank (8 x 6v batteries wired in series). Depending on the weather/season/usage we will run the generator about 3 hours / week. We are often gone on weekends which allows the system to "catch up" in some ways, although you are right in assuming that 645w is on the low side for keeping that amount of batteries charged (hence the use of the generator more often than we would like). We try to equalize the batteries about 2 times per year, and if you were interested I could test the batteries for state of charge to give you a more accurate idea as to their given capacity at this time.

In all honesty, I would imagine that the batteries are sitting at about 30-50% life at the moment. They were manufactured in 2009 and have been used relatively steadily since. I have assumed a value of around $1000-1250 for the batteries as part of the system price, as I recognize that they are the component which sees the most wear and tear.

Currently, we run the following on our system:
- Small chest freezer and fridge
- Water pump with UV filtration
- Lights
- Washing machine
- Electronics (internet receiver, router, laptop and cell phone chargers,etc)
- Small kitchen appliances (convection oven, blender, toaster oven, etc.)
- Dehumidifier/portable a/c unit/heat pump

We are 2 people in the house (and it is, admittedly a small house). Our hot water heater and stove are both propane powered (if you were interested, we might be switching those out as well!)

icarus · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

I think he is right about the life of the batteries. That said, I wouldn't give more than scrap value for them. If he has been loading them as heavily as he has, AND not properly charging them, they are closer to 0% than 100%.

The value is the PV and the other hardware, and that is IMHO no more than $.50 on the dollar at most. (given some allowance for easy collection to your location.

T

YehoshuaAgapao · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

Washing machine, Water pump, toaster oven, convection oven, portable AC & heat pump - very heavy loads.

You'll be buying new batteries within a year or two and you need more PV.

NorthGuy · July 2013

Re: Would you spend your money on this??

Rkg76 wrote: »

We have a 48v battery bank (8 x 6v batteries wired in series). Depending on the weather/season/usage we will run the generator about 3 hours / week. We are often gone on weekends which allows the system to "catch up" in some ways, although you are right in assuming that 645w is on the low side for keeping that amount of batteries charged (hence the use of the generator more often than we would like). We try to equalize the batteries about 2 times per year, and if you were interested I could test the batteries for state of charge to give you a more accurate idea as to their given capacity at this time.

In all honesty, I would imagine that the batteries are sitting at about 30-50% life at the moment. They were manufactured in 2009 and have been used relatively steadily since. I have assumed a value of around $1000-1250 for the batteries as part of the system price, as I recognize that they are the component which sees the most wear and tear.

Currently, we run the following on our system:
- Small chest freezer and fridge
- Water pump with UV filtration
- Lights
- Washing machine
- Electronics (internet receiver, router, laptop and cell phone chargers,etc)
- Small kitchen appliances (convection oven, blender, toaster oven, etc.)
- Dehumidifier/portable a/c unit/heat pump

Wow! Running all that on less than 100kWh/month! I guess this was constant struggle, always undercharged batteries, exercices in austerity, off-grid nightmare. No wonder they're switching to the grid.

The system is severely dis-balanced, so it doesn't have any worth as a system. Components may be of interest. What they did could not provide any reasonable charging regiment for batteries, so betting on them being any good isn't worth the risk. Magnum inverter is not the very best. The size of solar array is incredibly small compared to the rest of the system, so you'll need to add more panels, which creates panel matching problems. The mount becomes undersized and probably cannot be re-used with bigger array. Even if you wanted all of the components, IMHO $5000 is hugely overpriced.

Would you spend your money on this??

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