New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Comments
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Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Well Chris,
I will give your "recipe" a try and see what happens. If i can just get the AC1 to not charge but AC2 to charge from the generator it will be a great help. I will let you know in a week or so if it has improved things.
Joe -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxI will give your "recipe" a try and see what happens. If i can just get the AC1 to not charge but AC2 to charge from the generator it will be a great help. I will let you know in a week or so if it has improved things.
Cool - I sure hope it works better - it will be interesting to hear how it does.
I should mention, based on my experimenting yesterday, that you don't necessarily have to change the Grid Support Volts as low as it will go on your XW4024, which is 24.0V. You can set that to the level that you're comfortable with in discharging your batteries. When they get discharged to that voltage in Grid Support Mode, what it did for me was switch to Load Shaving, which is basically a switch to AC1 power and it stops using power from RE sources. If you set the Load Shaving to say 10 amps it will pull up to 10 amps off the grid at night when there's no RE power. But if the draw goes over 10 amps from the grid it will still use some battery power to supplement the grid in Load Shaving Mode.
So I think the key is to find the Grid Support Volts level, and the Load Shaving Amps level, that will keep your RE source (MPPT60's) at maximum production the next day, all day, to catch the batteries back up and absorb them again so they're full when the sun goes down.
Note that I'm apply more of an off-grid approach to this than how it says it supposed to work in the manual. In theory, the way it explains it in the manual is that you only ever shallow cycle your batteries using all this stuff. But I don't believe that's good for batteries - they don't like to live their lives not being worked at least some (which means deep discharging them every once in awhile). So using this method will cycle your batteries a little harder than how it's presented in the Operator's Manual. But that can be adjusted (DoD) by where you set that Grid Support Volts at because XW will effectively switch to grid power when it goes into Load Shaving Mode.
It might take some tweaks to those settings to find the "sweet spot". But I do believe it should work, fix the problem with it going into a rebulk off AC1 power when the grid glitches, and maximize your solar harvest by giving it something to do during the day - recharge the battery bank AND meet loads, instead of just supplementing loads like it's doing now.
I hope that makes sense.
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Chris -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxChrisOlson wrote: »Cool - I sure hope it works better - it will be interesting to hear how it does.
I should mention, based on my experimenting yesterday, that you don't necessarily have to change the Grid Support Volts as low as it will go on your XW4024, which is 24.0V. You can set that to the level that you're comfortable with in discharging your batteries. When they get discharged to that voltage in Grid Support Mode, what it did for me was switch to Load Shaving, which is basically a switch to AC1 power and it stops using power from RE sources. If you set the Load Shaving to say 10 amps it will pull up to 10 amps off the grid at night when there's no RE power. But if the draw goes over 10 amps from the grid it will still use some battery power to supplement the grid in Load Shaving Mode.
So I think the key is to find the Grid Support Volts level, and the Load Shaving Amps level, that will keep your RE source (MPPT60's) at maximum production the next day, all day, to catch the batteries back up and absorb them again so they're full when the sun goes down.
Note that I'm apply more of an off-grid approach to this than how it says it supposed to work in the manual. In theory, the way it explains it in the manual is that you only ever shallow cycle your batteries using all this stuff. But I don't believe that's good for batteries - they don't like to live their lives not being worked at least some (which means deep discharging them every once in awhile). So using this method will cycle your batteries a little harder than how it's presented in the Operator's Manual. But that can be adjusted (DoD) by where you set that Grid Support Volts at because XW will effectively switch to grid power when it goes into Load Shaving Mode.
It might take some tweaks to those settings to find the "sweet spot". But I do believe it should work, fix the problem with it going into a rebulk off AC1 power when the grid glitches, and maximize your solar harvest by giving it something to do during the day - recharge the battery bank AND meet loads, instead of just supplementing loads like it's doing now.
I hope that makes sense.
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Chris
It is funny how we both are trying to achieve the same things through completely different methods. When I tried to fine tune my system over the defaults I found that most of the things in the manual did not apply to what the hardware was doing. After futzing around with it for about a year I decided to fix it with hardware. So I put on a dump load to maximize solar production by heating water. Before the dump, once my battery was recharged from the previous night, the solar would cut back to only run the loads. Now at least I make use of excess solar. The next issue was this annoying continuous grid draw even with adequate solar. So I put in the AC1 contactor.
The way my system works is in the morning, the battery gets all of the solar until the voltage comes up to grid support volts and then the inverter takes some of the load. When the bank is up to about 95% I go off grid so the inverter takes all of the house load and the solar keeps pumping. If the system is off grid and the battery is up to 29.3 volts I then switch in the dump load to both limit the voltage to the bank and keep the solar pumping if it is available. This kludge has served me well for close to five years and the battery seems happy so far. But it would be nice to have the system working a little more smoothly so I will give your method a try and see how it works out -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxIt is funny how we both are trying to achieve the same things through completely different methods.
The way my system works is in the morning, the battery gets all of the solar until the voltage comes up to grid support volts and then the inverter takes some of the load. When the bank is up to about 95% I go off grid so the inverter takes all of the house load and the solar keeps pumping.
I know - you find out after years of working in the engineering field that different people have different ways of looking at a problem and how to solve it. That's why teams of engineers usually design a product instead of one engineer doing it.
What I'm proposing, basically, is to work the batteries a little harder so they need to keep charging instead of going off-grid when they get to 95% SOC. And still keep your dump load handy in case you get the exceptional day when the solar would throttle back because of a really good solar harvest. You can always use hot water, so heating water with excess always works well, no matter what.
The other thing is, after living off-grid as many years as we have, I don't get overly concerned about the batteries not getting to 100% SOC every single day. As long as they get a full absorb about once every 7-10 days they'll be perfectly happy. So don't be afraid to work 'em in the 50-80% SOC level for several days. It won't hurt 'em. The sulfate on the plates is not going to harden that fast. It takes weeks of chronic deficit charging to really hard-sulfate a true deep cycle battery.
The other thing about your present method - I have noticed that every single time I shut down our little generator the confounded XW generates an Automatic Fault Code for AC1 either being under freq or under voltage. It's like - yeah - do I really need to know that? And then it sits there with the red light glowing until it decides to turn it off. You can't clear the confounded thing because it's an auto-fault. But it annoys me because I don't like red lights on my inverter. Does it do that for you too when your contactor disconnects it?
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Chris -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
In the summer when the solar gettin is good, I tend to cycle my batteries from about 100% to about 75%. In the winter I tend to try to keep them fully charged most of the time just in case. This is why all of the buttons on my SCP have the legends worn off.
Most of those annoying faults are because you have it in grid support mode. Funny but even that part of the firmware seems to have a bug, I only get the fault about 50% of the time. I have turned off the beeper in the SCP and now I only get the red light and message and I don't have to listen to it beep for 5 minutes. -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxIn the summer when the solar gettin is good, I tend to cycle my batteries from about 100% to about 75%. In the winter I tend to try to keep them fully charged most of the time just in case.
In the winter, why not just fall back on your generator in that "just in case" scenario? Us off-grid folks been doing it for years. Using the generator for what it was designed for is not a sin, or anything like that
You'll have to excuse my tunnel-vision view of how I look at these things. Living without grid power since June 2001 eventually gets a person into a viewpoint of "who needs it?"
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Chris -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxChrisOlson wrote: »In the winter, why not just fall back on your generator in that "just in case" scenario? Us off-grid folks been doing it for years. Using the generator for what it was designed for is not a sin, or anything like that
You'll have to excuse my tunnel-vision view of how I look at these things. Living without grid power since June 2001 eventually gets a person into a viewpoint of "who needs it?"
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Chris
Because grid power is way cheaper than gasoline. I only want my generator to run if:
1. There is no solar available.
2. The grid is down.
3. The bank voltage drops to 23.9V for 30 seconds.
Generator is a last resort! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxChrisOlson wrote: »The other thing about your present method - I have noticed that every single time I shut down our little generator the confounded XW generates an Automatic Fault Code for AC1 either being under freq or under voltage. It's like - yeah - do I really need to know that? And then it sits there with the red light glowing until it decides to turn it off. You can't clear the confounded thing because it's an auto-fault. But it annoys me because I don't like red lights on my inverter. Does it do that for you too when your contactor disconnects it?
I have a transfer switch (which really works as a on/off switch) between generator and XW. I disconnect it before turning the generator off. I've never seen that warning. -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxBecause grid power is way cheaper than gasoline.
The cost of energy produced by the generator and used directly by loads is likely to be less than const of the grid energy saved into batteries then delivered to loads through inverter.I only want my generator to run if:
1. There is no solar available.
2. The grid is down.
3. The bank voltage drops to 23.9V for 30 seconds.
Generator is a last resort!
Since grid is down very rarely, the cost of the things you're doing while it is down becomes negligible when you avearage over the whole year. It may be not wise to do anything to minimize the cost during these rare events. -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxThe cost of energy produced by the generator and used directly by loads is likely to be less than const of the grid energy saved into batteries then delivered to loads through inverter.
Since grid is down very rarely, the cost of the things you're doing while it is down becomes negligible when you avearage over the whole year. It may be not wise to do anything to minimize the cost during these rare events.
The grid here glitches several times a day and when we have a storm that takes the lines out it can take anywhere from a day to a week to get things going again. I live in an area that seems to be at the "end of the line" so the few houses here are low priority. In any case, I would rather charge from the grid than the generator if not only for the reason that I hate lugging fuel! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxThe grid here glitches several times a day and when we have a storm that takes the lines out it can take anywhere from a day to a week to get things going again. I live in an area that seems to be at the "end of the line" so the few houses here are low priority. In any case, I would rather charge from the grid than the generator if not only for the reason that I hate lugging fuel!
I think what NorthGuy was trying to say is that if you use your generator for Peak Load Management (AC direct to loads), that takes the load off the inverter and battery bank for peak loads so the RE system can handle the charging. Then you don't have to use the generator for charging.
Us off-grid folks are always trying to dream up new ways of accomplishing this at least cost. I was browsing thru the local craigslist last night and I found an ad that said 3500 watt diesel generator 120/240V, $775. I called the guy to find out about it and it's a Suburu Robin, electric start with a Hatz 1B30 diesel. It's only got 27 hours on it and he's had it for 10 years. I'm going to get it tomorrow night. Why do I need it? Well, that should be obvious. One generator is not enough for off-grid folks. Two is good so you got a backup. Three is better. Four is even better yet.
What am I going to do with it? I'm going to pull my Champion off AC1 and put that on a transfer switch with the Honda for backup on AC2. I'm going to put the little Suburu on AC1 and run it when I'm working in the shop for "grid power" so I can run all sorts of high draw equipment without having to run the Honda (which is primarily my winter-time generator). The little Hatz 1B30 is lucky if you can shove a quart of fuel thru it in an hour at full load. With 3 kVA supplement on the grid input of the XW I can run anything I want in the shop, including the plaz and air compressor without overloading the inverter! And do it REALLY cheap. Probably cheaper than grid power.
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Chris -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
what is the reading accuracy using the combox? I can not find that information anywhere
Please anyone that knows, point to a link that detail the metering/reading specs of the XW and new combox
thanks -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxb. ecologìcAll wrote: »what is the reading accuracy using the combox? I can not find that information anywhere
Please anyone that knows, point to a link that detail the metering/reading specs of the XW and new combox
As I understand, the ComBox reads the data from XW through XanBus, so you'll see exact the same numbers as displayed on SCP. -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Schneider site finally at least has a PDF data sheet for the ComBox, must be getting closer to release. Interested for my 2 grid tie inverters as the new Conext View can't do what SG View can do foe a dual system.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
The Combox is available and has been released. It may take a little time for suppliers but the unit is on the market!Schneider site finally at least has a PDF data sheet for the ComBox, must be getting closer to release. Interested for my 2 grid tie inverters as the new Conext View can't do what SG View can do foe a dual system."we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
htps://offgridsolar1.com/
E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Thanks
Hope it will give me what I want for information from the inverters.
Might have some of the new system panels on the roof by this weekend, just about done with the roofing. Going for 111 deg F today no relief of any appreciable drop in temps in forecast.
Been having to get off the roof by about 11:00 or so due to shingles testing soft and leaving smug marks on them. Will get back on for a couple of hours tonight. Will have 9600 watts with 2, 3800 watt output inverters when done.
Attachment not found.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxDave Sparks wrote: »The Combox is available and has been released. It may take a little time for suppliers but the unit is on the market!
Cool - have you seen a price on it yet? I found this video on the YouTube that shows some of what it does:
[video=youtube_share;VkAur4_MUrU]
http://youtu.be/VkAur4_MUrU[/video]
After I read here earlier today that it is now available, I called our dealer about it. But no call back today - I suppose they are gone for the 4th of July holiday. But I hope to find out a price and when it will be able to be ordered soon.
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Chris -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Haven't seen any mention of the price suggested for it.
Cool Video hope that it will do what I need (Want!!) for recording. Not impressed with the New Conext View that they have out for there inverters. Can only have one instance of it running on a pc at a time. It will do and show totals for multip[le inverters on the Zanbus network which I have and also have seperate RS232 lines run into my computer area. Conext View will work with the Zantrex GT3.8, but SG View will not work with the new Conext TX 3800.
Want all of the information parameters shown for both as it makes it easy to see if there is a problem or with the DC or AC side. Loose part of that with the system display setting.
SG View would allow multiple instanaces of the program to run as long as they were logging to seperate folders.
Will be interesting to see what the cost is when either Wind-Sun gets them in or the other vendor I use here in Calif. Wind-Sun normally has the best price and I have always gotten great service form them on everything I have ordered. Got my second inverter for @ $600.00 less than CA vendor on the Earth Day Sale. $400 less normal price?
For the Off Grid or XW owners if this Combox can be used to upgrade the devices and can do mucjh more along with that would be a big Plus for it and offset some of the cost for it??GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Check this out, the Android App is now on the Google store. Search for "Conext ComBox" in play.google.com
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.schneider_electric.offgrid.UI&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDMsImNvbS5zY2huZWlkZXJfZWxlY3RyaWMub2ZmZ3JpZC5VSSJd -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxInverterExpert wrote: »Check this out, the Android App is now on the Google store. Search for "Conext ComBox" in play.google.com
Now hackers can start working on breaking in. -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Got it on wife's android pad, doesn't appear for android smartphone? Haven't tried IPad
Still waiting to see what the cost will be at the store. Will be really nice to see what all it can really do for information presentation and data logging.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Should be getting a price from Wind Sun shortly?
Operation manuals etc are being added to Schneider web site for view and download.
Sounds promising.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxAs I understand, the ComBox reads the data from XW through XanBus, so you'll see exact the same numbers as displayed on SCP.
thanks for the answer.
then, what it is the reading accuracy of an XW inverter?
I can not find that on the manual or specs for the XW -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxb. ecologìcAll wrote: »thanks for the answer.
then, what it is the reading accuracy of an XW inverter?
I can not find that on the manual or specs for the XW
It's hard to tell. Xantrex tech support told me 5% of full scale. In my experience, most of the numbers are better than this, but some, namely DC amps, are way off. -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Information from Schneider Tech is the ComBox should be getting to vendors within a couple of weeks. MSRP is @ $500, but should hit the street in the $350 to $400 range?
Should totally eliminate my need for the buggy and incomplete Conext View for my inverters.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBoxMSRP is @ $500, but should hit the street in the $350 to $400 range?
I thought it wouldn't come cheap :roll: -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
It look like it in the same range or lower than a web interface logger for either SMA or Fronius interfaces.
Can't fully endorse it yet until some of them are out and being used. Has some reports neat features for those that need it. If it doesn't log both of my GT inverters, then my son is working on code to view and log from the RS232 serial data line. Can't find or get the source code to modify SG/GT View to work with the new Conext so he is starting from scratch.
Thru it RS485 bus may beagle to interface with some other charge controller's that have it? Other computer guru's I am sure will investigate that possibility.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Conext ComBow available to purchase (Order, still out about a week) at NAWS, Sponsor Store Site!
$211.00 plus shipping.
I have submitted my order, can't wait to hook it up and check it out.:DGT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!! -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
Yeah. Now they got ComBox but they're out of XW-MPPT60's and I need another controller. My local Schneider dealer is out too. I had to order one from Wyoming
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Chris -
Re: New SW and XW communication "Conext ComBox
That's not good. Hope it was close to the same cost as NAWS. Guess ComBox is about a week out? Did they have XW-controller on order. I don' remember seeing the out of stock on it until after your post. Guess that can lag behind actual inventory.GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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