Solar Street Lighting

Nila
Nila Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
Hi All,

Need your help seeing if these specs are okay.

We use a simple LED lighting.

12V Leadacid battery. 90AH.

25W philipps LED .

75 W solar panel with a 10A PWM charge controller

4M UV wires..

Charge controller will switch on/off the light automitically. based on time as well as when the battery is too low.

We have 2 issues..
1. 25W seems to be too high a load for the 75 W panel to power .. we surely get 7 sun hours almost daily .

2. Light is a AC light so we HAVE to use a SMPS/mini inverter which eats 10-more watts ..
when i used my Clamp meter.. it was taking around 3AMPS from the battery .

Is 25W too high already ? if so reducing to 20 or 15w lighting will do the job? or what is the maximum lighting this Panel can supply for 10-11 hours every night?

How can we inexpensively connect the 12v battery to power up the 15w or 20W light without an expensive inverter or smps?
Is it possible to get any LED driver that will work DC to DC.. instead of AC ? I dont know if there is a cheap way to step up the DC ..

These LEDs we get here have a small choke or something which drivers the LED from AC source. We dont like converting DC to AC then back to DC.. need a solution here.

Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    When there's no sun the battery is what powers the light. 25 Watts on 12 Volts is a tad over 2 Amps, plus the inverter and inefficiency so 3 Amps draw is not unrealistic (it will go up as Voltage goes down). You'd expect that 90 Amp hour battery to be able to run that for 10 hours (360 Watt hours)

    So let's look at the charging. One 75 Watt panel would be slim on a 90 Amp hour battery. Getting 7 hours of sun per day is not quite the same thing as getting 7 hours of good sun. Even so, since all the power has to be stored in the battery and then released at night you'd be looking at:
    75 * 7 * 0.52 = 273 Watt hours from the panel. There's your basic problem.

    I would bet that good sun hours results in even less power than that. If you work the formula backwards and use 5 hours as the time figure you get:
    360 Watt hours needed / 0.52 / 5 = 138 Watts of panel.

    That much panel should be capable of 7-8 Amps of current or an 8% charge rate.

    You could run your LED light without an inverter if it can be powered from 12 VDC directly. That would save about 1/3 of the power being used now. So changing to a 12 VDC LED is one option, doubling the PV is another.

    I'm sure some of the forum members have sources for 12 Volt LED's they'd recommend. I live in Canada and CFL's are just catching on now so LED technology is like sci-fi here. :roll:
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,590 admin
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    As a start, I would suggest looking at CandlePowerForums and their LED section.

    They have lots of discussions about LED, electronic ballasts, and even companies that market built and kit ballasts for LEDs (CFP is a "flash light" centric forum--So these are going to be low power/high efficiency devices--at least last I looked a few years ago).

    Don't know if you are looking for a few DIY type solutions, or want to look at mass production--But both are doable.

    White LEDs typically need around 3-6 volts to operate, and they need a "ballast" to limit current to specified level (LEDs have a very non-linear current knee where slight changes in voltage and temperature can cause dramatic swings in current).

    A ballast can run anywhere from a simple resistor (3-6 volt drop one or two LEDs, balance of drop across power resistor) to some sort of buck (voltage dropping) or buck/boost (low, middle or higher battery voltage) DC switching converter setup in current regulation mode. I don't see any reason for going with AC inverter based system here unless you have a central "power hub" connecting to a string of street lamps.

    This is done all the time with (better) LED flash lights... You can put in the ballast; automatic lighting control, battery voltage limits, even adjustable current modes (vary light according to needs).

    I would agree that 25 watts is "old school" for lighting. Using 25-100 Watt metal halide or high pressure sodium lights (white or orange) very efficient lightning and replacing with equivalent amount of Lumens of lighting from LED.

    I would suggest getting some modern Luxeon type LEDs and experiment with reflectors and various current (power levels) and see what is needed.

    The more you can focus light to where it is needed (older street light used to put 1/2 their energy into the sky), the less power you will need.

    Also, the human eye observes light "logarithmically"...

    In day to day work, we are used to measuring something as 3' or 6' long and saying that is a big difference.

    In lighting (and sound, and many engineering fields) we use logarithmic functions to describe/measure things because that is the way to manage "large differences" in the math (a radio transmitter outputs watts to 100,000's of watts, the receiver receives millionth's of a watt).

    With lighting, it is similar. Our eyes can barely perceive a 2:1 difference in light levels (i.e., a street light running at 25 watts will look virtually identical to one running 12.5 watts). It is when the power levels approach 10:1 or greater that we see a "day/night" difference.

    So--You should be able to reduce your LED output by 1/2 or even to 1/4 and still have "reasonably" equal lighting. Or, if dimmer lighting is OK, reduce to 1/10th the power level--The savings of battery/solar panel energy is huge.

    Another idea is to add a motion detector to the lighting. One company in Europe (at least) has been advertising such street lamps... Run at 1/4 power or less until motion detector trips from person walking, then ramp up light to full power (ramping is probably more acceptable than 10% to 100% switch to pedestrians and people in homes nearby). And back down when the person walks out of range.for

    Regarding 70 watt panel and 7 hours of sun--Probably closer to:

    70 watts * 0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.80 battery efficiency * 0.85 inverter efficiency * 5 hours average sun = 183 Watt*Hours per day for "average" 9+ months of year
    183 watts / 25 watt lamp = 7.3 hours per night

    So, I would guess that your setup is right on the raged edge... If the AC inverter is inefficient at 25 Watts, panels are dirty/not tilted to latitude, etc.--Then you are looking at some darkness out there.

    Anyway, interesting subject.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting
    Nila wrote: »
    .. we surely get 7 sun hours almost daily .
    Are you sure about that? Seven sun hours does not mean seven hours of sunlight. Seven sun hours means the equivalent of seven hours at 1000W/m^2 normal (perpendicular) to the surface of your collector. Most places get less than that. See this map for fixed flat plate collectors tilted at latitude facing south: http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi Most places in the US don't get seven hours; only parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Texas, and California get seven hours a day averaged over the year.
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    If you have a hardware store near you, I'd recommend looking at MR-16, bi-pin type lamps. Some are rated for low voltage (12 VAC typical of yard/garden lighting systems) but I've run them on 12V Battery power with no problems. 4 Watt directed lamps are very bright, and draw only around 300 mA of current.
  • etcm
    etcm Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    New link:
    http://www.nrel.gov/gis/solar.html
    ggunn wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? Seven sun hours does not mean seven hours of sunlight. Seven sun hours means the equivalent of seven hours at 1000W/m^2 normal (perpendicular) to the surface of your collector. Most places get less than that. See this map for fixed flat plate collectors tilted at latitude facing south: http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi Most places in the US don't get seven hours; only parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Texas, and California get seven hours a day averaged over the year.
  • Nila
    Nila Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting
    ggunn wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? Seven sun hours does not mean seven hours of sunlight. Seven sun hours means the equivalent of seven hours at 1000W/m^2 normal (perpendicular) to the surface of your collector. Most places get less than that. See this map for fixed flat plate collectors tilted at latitude facing south: http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi Most places in the US don't get seven hours; only parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Texas, and California get seven hours a day averaged over the year.

    Where I live.. you can consistently see the sun from 6am to 6:30PM daily every day of the year..

    out of that , you get intense sunlight atleast between 7:30 to 5PM ... which would approx give u 7 hours light easily.
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting
    Nila wrote: »
    Where I live.. you can consistently see the sun from 6am to 6:30PM daily every day of the year..

    out of that , you get intense sunlight atleast between 7:30 to 5PM ... which would approx give u 7 hours light easily.

    With a tracking system, perhaps. A fixed tilt wont see that much "straight on" alignment with the sun. Off-axis more than about 10-15 degrees, power falls off rapidly.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,590 admin
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    I am not sure, but I believe Bangalore (zero degree tilt?) is in the region of Nila:
    Solar Radiation
      Annual Average: 5.26 (kWh/m2/day)
      Monthly Average
      Jan     5.36
      Feb     6.06
      Mar     6.56
      Apr     6.38
      May     6.03
      Jun     4.84
      Jul     4.50
      Aug     4.47
      Sep     5.03
      Oct     4.63
      Nov     4.50
      Dec     4.74
    

    Goa on the east coast (from PV Watts) with 13 degree tilt:
    Month      Solar Radiation (kWh/m2/day)
    1      6.31     
    2      7.01     
    3      7.16     
    4      6.96     
    5      6.36     
    6      4.65     
    7      3.85     
    8      4.59     
    9      5.74     
    10      6.08     
    11      6.40     
    12      6.25     
    Year      5.94      
    

    And Mysore India (zero degree tilt?):
    Mysore, Karnataka, India
    
      Solar Radiation
      Annual Average: 5.10 (kWh/m2/day)
      Monthly Average
      Jan     5.44
      Feb     5.95
      Mar     6.39
      Apr     6.11
      May     5.65
      Jun     4.24
      Jul     3.88
      Aug     4.08
      Sep     4.89
      Oct     4.76
      Nov     4.81
      Dec     4.99
    
    Generally, you do not design street lighting for the best--but the worse amount of sun in the area...

    And due to local weather patterns, it appears it is hard to generalize the amount of sun available in the region.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting
    Nila wrote: »
    Where I live.. you can consistently see the sun from 6am to 6:30PM daily every day of the year..

    out of that , you get intense sunlight atleast between 7:30 to 5PM ... which would approx give u 7 hours light easily.

    Where I live the days are 16 hours long in Summer.
    But the sun is still only directly on them for a couple of hours, and the angled sun the rest of the time does not give full output power. This is why we talk of "hours of equivalent good sun". Even with a tracker this will not be 100% of daylight time because the atmosphere it has to go through is inevitably thicker in morning and evening reducing the amount of light on the panels.

    You really should check the PV Watts numbers for your locale as suggested before.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting
    Nila wrote: »
    Where I live.. you can consistently see the sun from 6am to 6:30PM daily every day of the year..

    out of that , you get intense sunlight atleast between 7:30 to 5PM ... which would approx give u 7 hours light easily.
    That is not how sun hours are calculated. Sun hours are hours of 1000W/m^2 sunlight perpendicular to the plane of your collector. Obviously, since the sun moves, your collector (if it is not tracking) only sees that for a small part of the day, so the equivalency must be calculated. For example, at 4PM you may only be getting 500W/m^2, so it would take two hours of exposure at that level to get one sun hour. See the NREL data for the sun hours at your location. What is your location, by the way?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,590 admin
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    Nila is in southern India.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting
    BB. wrote: »
    Nila is in southern India.

    -Bill
    Oh. Well then, NREL probably isn't much help, is it?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,590 admin
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    Not sure... PV Watts has a few places, and the other two links I provided said their data is from NREL (PV Watts people).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Street Lighting

    I believe they have a version which allows input of Lat. and Lon. to get the approximate data. Not perfect, but better than a wild guess.