Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Basicplus · May 2013

Hello

I was looking into batteries for a small camp and came across a set of three Surrette marine 8HH6 31PM at a local battery dealer, they were all under 8V at the time. I have no idea what service life they have had, but at close to $950.00 each I bet they came from a government boat. The date code on the battery 4 month of 2008.

I have been charging these battery with a nexen 24v 25amp charger, and a xantrex truecharge 20amp 12v(I have the outer casing top off). With both chargers going the bank will get to 31.4v, after around 8 hours the batteries get to about 105f. I have equalized the batteries for 8 hours at a time six times now and have added about 1/2 of distilled water to each cell so far.

Test 7.5amp draw for 17.5 hours

bat cell1 cell2 cell3 cell4
1 2.039v 2.02v 2.02v 2.02v
2.015 1.180 1.180 1.175

2 2.03v 2.044v 2.02v 2.027v
1.190 1.200 1.175 1.190

3 2.035v 2.016v 2.03v 2.03v
1.200 1.175 1.185 1.185

After the test I charged the batteries for 12 hours at 31v, they came off charge at 110f.

bat cell1 cell2 cell3 cell4

1 1.270 1.270 1.260 1.260

2 1.260 1.275 1.250 1.260

3 1.275 1.255 1.270 1.270

I called Surrette to ask about the few low sg and they offered to prorate me into a set of 4 L16 6V. Surrette is local for me so no shipping.

I have kind of grown attached to these batteries so it would be great if they would last another 5 years or so. So far I have equalized these batteries for over 60hours.

Could these batteries have been over watered at some time, what about replacing electrolyte.

Thanks..

Blackcherry04 · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Look's like your doing ok on them. Could you pull the lowest 4 cells and get them into one battery ?? That way you could concentrate on them by themselves. DO not add any electrolyte, that could be a kiss of death. Based on how low they were 60 hrs is not a that unusual. Are you trying to get to 32 Volts ??. I put mine in a water tub to lower the temperature's and flow water around them, sometimes you have to stop and let them cool.

Basicplus · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Thanks for the reply.

I have a charger I use for rc lipo batteries, it is programmable from 1-12cells and up to 40amp. I charged two side by side cells for one hour at 40amps 5.4v, the temperature went to 105f. I am waiting for the cells to cool before I Hydro them. Do you think it is better to hit them hard or be gentle with the amperage, I will be checking the temperature of the electrolyte ofter with a temp gun.

Thanks..

Blackcherry04 · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Basicplus wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

I have a charger I use for rc lipo batteries, it is programmable from 1-12cells and up to 40amp. I charged two side by side cells for one hour at 40amps 5.4v, the temperature went to 105f. I am waiting for the cells to cool before I Hydro them. Do you think it is better to hit them hard or be gentle with the amperage, I will be checking the temperature of the electrolyte ofter with a temp gun.

Thanks..

They are going to limit their own amps ( current ) because they will only accept so much. Once you get the Voltage up the actual EQ current is small, that said you have some big batteries, generally a 1000 amp hr bank will only take 20-30 amps. Just watch the temperatures. 105 F is not that high, most manufacturers recommend you stay below 115-120 F. You have them in reverse now, I'd keep on them.

NorthGuy · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Why do you think they're that bad?

The difference between best cell and worst cell is only 0.025. Natural variation, measurement errors, and slightly different water level could easily explain the difference.

Basicplus · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

I would like to get these batteries into shape in my garage vs at the camp on solar. I just do not know how far I should take it with the equalization. I have 750w of panel and an outback fm60 for the camp.

Blackcherry04 · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Basicplus wrote: »

I would like to get these batteries into shape in my garage vs at the camp on solar. I just do not know how far I should take it with the equalization. I have 750w of panel and an outback fm60 for the camp.

Well, if the SG's are not rising , you STOP. North brought up that it's not that much difference, while that's true, if you don't have them close the higher cells will discharge into the weaker ones. Do a test, let them rest 2-3 days and take the cell voltage of each one, see if the higher cells have dropped more or if the all the cells have dropped equally. At 8 Volts these were 911 Batteries, you done a great job on them, if they will hold that voltage.

Vic · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Hi Bp,

Well, looking at the Surrette spec, the 8HHG-31P is a nominal 325 AH (at 1.265 SG electrolyte) 8V battery:
http://rollsbattery.com/public/specsheets/spec_110.pdf

If this is a traditional Lead Antinomy battery, 31 V is just barely into EQ voltage range.

A few questions; regarding the test noted in your first post, Were those voltages "Resting" , under load, or what?
Were the tempeartures that you note equal among cells/batteries?
Are you temperature-compensating noted voltages/SGs?

Would agree that if the exact history of a flooded battery is unknown, that one NEVER add electrolyte after a battery bank has been comissioned.
Thanks, Vic

Basicplus · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

The volt readings in the first post were taken with the 7.5amp load on.

Ok I took some more readings ..Batteries are at 60F..

Bat...1............cell1...............cell2...............cell3.................cell4
10H rest..........2.141v............2.092v............2.098v..............2.170v
34H rest..........2.129v............2.088v............2.101v..............2.158v
59H rest..........2.131v............2.092v............2.103v..............2.159v
SG..................1.280..............1.250.............1.250................1.285

Bat...2............cell1...............cell2...............cell3.................cell4
10h rest.........2.134v.............2.141v...........2.109v..............2.126v
34h rest.........2.114v.............2.128v...........2.103v..............2.115v
59h rest.........2.119v.............2.126v...........2.106v..............2.117v
SG.................1.275..............1.275.............1.260................1.265

Bat...3............cell1...............cell2...............cell3.................cell4
10h rest.........2.146v.............2.123v...........2.132v..............2.133v
34h rest.........2.127v.............2.101v...........2.114v..............2.119v
59h rest.........2.131v.............2.106v...........2.117v..............2.123v
SG.................1.275...............1.255............1.275................1.265

BB. · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Looking pretty good. When you get a chance, you should cycle the batteries to ~50% state of charge (and recharge) a few times too (at least). That will help condition the plates.

-Bill

Vic · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Thanks for the added data, this table is very easily readable.

Completely agree with BB Bill. Cycling the bank a few times will help, and should help reduce the variation in SG.

And, checking the consistency of electrolyte fill levels might account for some of the SG variation (?).

Just carefully monitor the battery/bank voltage during discharge sessions, watching for a rapid fall in voltage, that is usually a sign of one or more cells reaching a low SOC.

Good Luck, Vic

Basicplus · May 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Great.....I will cycle a few times and report back..

Thanks..

Basicplus · June 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

I have cycled them 3 times down to 50% and recharged. I charged battery 1 cell 2 for 19 hours at 30.5V and ran 4 hours of eq on the bank at 31.8V.

Bat...1............cell1...............cell2...............cell3.................cell4
.....................1275sg...........1250sg............1270sg.............1280sg

Bat...2............cell1...............cell2...............cell3.................cell4
...................1260sg...........1275sg............1250sg..............1260sg

Bat...3............cell1...............cell2...............cell3.................cell4
.....................1275sg...........1260sg...........1275sg..............1265sg

So what to do,

- I keep thinking that these batteries might have been over watered at some point, so if I were to replace the acid in the low sg cells. If the sg in the cells rise above 1275sg then dilute the cell with distilled water.

- leave it alone and put the batteries on the solar panels and charge at a higher charge voltage(29V) for awhile.

- Take the prorate deal from Surrete for 4 S530 - 6V - 530AH, it works out to basically 3 batteries for the price of 4 with no shipping.

Thanks..

niel · June 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

eq them again for about 2 more hours and mark down those results letting us know them too. if there's no more improvements visible then that's the best you can do with those batteries, but if you see improvement on any batteries then go ahead and eq again until you see no more improvements. of course watch your water levels and replace only with distilled water.

in fact chris olson may advise upping the voltage a tad too. comments chris?

Basicplus · June 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Another 3 hours EQ 31.5V 70F

Bat...1............cell1...............cell2...............c ell3.................cell4
.....................1.275sg...........1.250sg............1.270sg.............1.280sg
after EQ..........1.275sg...........1.255sg............1.275sg..............1.280sg

Bat...2............cell1...............cell2...............c ell3.................cell4
...................1.260sg...........1.275sg............1.250sg ..............1.260sg
after EQ....... 1.265sg...........1.275sq............1.255sg...............1.265sq

Bat...3............cell1...............cell2...............c ell3.................cell4
.....................1.275sg...........1.260sg...........1.275sg..............1.265sg
after EQ..........1.275sg...........1.260sg...........1.275sg..............1.275sg

I have between 50-70 hours of EQ on this bank in the last month.

From what I have read these SG's are not great, but workable.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is if I should run with these or take the prorate deal?

What kind of lifespan would you expect out of the batteries under 30% depth of discharge use?

I need to make a decision in the next week.

Thanks for all your replies...

solar_dave · June 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Basicplus wrote: »

Another 3 hours EQ 31.5V 70F

Bat...1............cell1...............cell2...............c ell3.................cell4
.....................1.275sg...........1.250sg............1.270sg.............1.280sg
after EQ..........1.275sg...........1.255sg............1.275sg..............1.280sg

Bat...2............cell1...............cell2...............c ell3.................cell4
...................1.260sg...........1.275sg............1.250sg ..............1.260sg
after EQ....... 1.265sg...........1.275sq............1.255sg...............1.265sq

Bat...3............cell1...............cell2...............c ell3.................cell4
.....................1.275sg...........1.260sg...........1.275sg..............1.265sg
after EQ..........1.275sg...........1.260sg...........1.275sg..............1.275sg

I have between 50-70 hours of EQ on this bank in the last month.

From what I have read these SG's are not great, but workable.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is if I should run with these or take the prorate deal?

What kind of lifespan would you expect out of the batteries under 30% depth of discharge use?

I need to make a decision in the next week.

Thanks for all your replies...

Others here know more than I but IMHO I would run them and see how they hang in there. Some of the SG look pretty good actually and others are only slightly low. The EQ continues to improve the low ones I would keep hit them till they stop rising.

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Batteries #1 and #2 both appear to have a defective cell.

Vic · June 2013

Re: Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

Hi B p,

To me, these SGs do not look too bad. There seems to be some inconsistancy in the readings between the first SGs you have reported, and those reported after all of the cycling, charging and EQing -- several cells appear to have lower SGs now than those taken much earlier.

One note, is that the water fill levels are important when trying to make decisions on weather the SG levels are moving in the upward direction, which is the goal of fEQing, and possibly reducing the few cells with higher than normal SGs. Some of the high SG readings might be the result of water being gassed off.

Before you took the last SG readings reported in post #15, have you adjusted the electrolyte levels by adding distilled water to the cells that needed water, and then run a normal Absorb charge to mix??

Do NOT worry about weather these batts have ever been over-watered. You cannot know this, and adding ANYTHING other than distilled water is a very, very, VERY bad idea. Over watering that does not result in electrolyte running out of the vent tubes is not an issue, as in normal charging, excess water is gassed off. And, electrolyte that runs out is a total unknown, and therefore not correctable, IMHO.

Of course, you must make the decision about taking Surrettes offer for replacements, vs running these ... the future is a bit difficult to forsee.
Best of luck, Vic

Need advice on Surrettes ( paid scrap value )

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