Building new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Browsing the web for info on charging battery banks and found this site that seems to be a good primer regarding batteries. Many topics, graphs, etc. Will be looking at it in more detail later.

Here's the link:
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/00.Glossary/index.html

Cheers

Ernest

BB. · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

You might look at a much larger tank/cistern... Do you have fire conditions out there? Or other possible issues with water availability (I know there is a lot of rain there--but do you have the ability to collect drinkable/substantial amount of water on the property)?

-Bill

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Took some pictures of the start of the roof today. Also one of our overcast days.

The structure is quite lite, no loads to speak of. God roof lines for panels I think.

Here are the pics:

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Cheers

Ernest

niel · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

"God roof lines for panels I think."

hard to beat that.:-)

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

niel wrote: »

"God roof lines for panels I think."

hard to beat that.:-)

Okay, bit of editorial license, "GOOD" roof line.

Cheers

Ernest

monoloco · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree wrote: »

Thanks for the notes. Had some finger problems with the fridge numbers, will review my data and do again.

Going to revisit the 12 VDC lighting and fans. Always open to suggestions until the work has to be done.

Like the idea of a French press.

The Panasonic micro wave also broils, haven't tried it yet but it is supposed to. I can see us cooking outside more often than not, and using a small portable 2 burner gas top and the BBQ.

The exhaust fan for the power center will be using the 12 VDC computer fans that draw a 1/4 amp.

Like your thoughts on panels.

Lots of work to do as we go forward.

Thanks again. Cheers

I agree, forget the 12v lights and fans, go with 120v LED's and Emerson makes a great 120v ceiling fan with a DC motor that only draws 17 watts and moves a ton of air. All the 12v ceiling fans I've encountered are next to useless.

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

BB. wrote: »

You might look at a much larger tank/cistern... Do you have fire conditions out there? Or other possible issues with water availability (I know there is a lot of rain there--but do you have the ability to collect drinkable/substantial amount of water on the property)?

-Bill

The water system that I want to put in is in case the developments pump goes down or there is a hydro outage. We had 130 USG on our boat and it lasted us 5 to 6 days alongside - 2 weeks when away. Will also be able to use it on a regular basis if we want to - keep the water changed.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

monoloco wrote: »

I agree, forget the 12v lights and fans, go with 120v LED's and Emerson makes a great 120v ceiling fan with a DC motor that only draws 17 watts and moves a ton of air. All the 12v ceiling fans I've encountered are next to useless.

Thanks for the info. Had a look at the Emerson web site. It has two eco fans that move a ton of air. The "Carrera Grande Eco" rated at 21 watts on high, moving 7184 CFM or 342 CFM per watt. The other eco fan is the "Avant Eco" rated at 20.2 watts, moving 6900 CFM or 342 CFM per watt. Both fans come in 54, 60, or 72 inch with 16 degree pitch. Rather impressive. I do believe from what I have been finding out in light trials, that these units probably draw 1 or 2 watts more than advertised - to get 21 out, put 23 in. Still very good. I think any ceiling fan that can push that much air for under 30 watts is very good.

Here's the web site:

http://www.emersonfans.com/Pages/Home.aspx

Will be looking into sourcing these down here. Barring this, have Plan B in the hopper. Going to do a trial on a Westinghouse 56 inch industrial. Cost of fan was under $60.00 US.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

monoloco wrote: »

I agree, forget the 12v lights and fans, go with 120v LED's and Emerson makes a great 120v ceiling fan with a DC motor that only draws 17 watts and moves a ton of air. All the 12v ceiling fans I've encountered are next to useless.

I had further thoughts about the Emerson fans. If you cut the airflow in half it would be about normal for a standard type of fan, but the watts would be significantly lower. If these fans are 20-21 watts on high, medium must be significantly lower. Had a look at the PDF manual on line but no electrical data in it.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Missed one of the eco fans from Emerson, the "Midway Eco" rated at 17.5 watts, giving 6206 CFM or 355 CFM per watt. Just talked to the Latin America Headquarters in Florida and was told they do not ship to Panama. Now on to plan "B".

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Been contemplating the solar system as a whole, and have been thinking about the solar array size. Understand the need to size the battery bank for the nighttime loads and have the array charge the batteries during the day and power the loads. With this in mind there is no guarantee that the power will flow where you want it to, batteries or load. Even if MidNite brings in a battery monitoring shunt system, the best it will do is provide the info to the CC so you can monitor the system, it will not be able to direct the charge current to load or batteries. Having said this, I'm of the mindset to add additional panels that would precipitate another CC, have more power produced so that the odds are better at ensuring that the batteries get enough juice during the day.

I have been on the MidNite web site and used its CC calculator. With the L16 batteries @ 420 AH, I think the minimum number of panels will be 12. Using the MidNite CC calculator, the optimum configuration for this size array is 3 panels in series, with 4 parallel strings (see attached PDF). This fits the Classic 150 profile.

Attachment not found.

Moving up to a 15 panel array will necessitate a second CC (see attached PDF), but it would allow future expansion, and provide more power during the day to power loads as well as charging the batteries. Would also facilitate changing to a different battery configuration and size in the future, and a cheaper price on the panels - one could only wish.

Attachment not found.

As some have said, design in the growth factor, because it happens. The Mrs has also told me that it isn't about the cost, it has a to to do with not relying on the system, and when everyone else is worrying about whether or when the power will be restored, we won't have to worry about it.

Some thoughts that I wanted to share.

Cheers

Ernest

NorthGuy · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree wrote: »

With this in mind there is no guarantee that the power will flow where you want it to, batteries or load.

You do not need any special effort to direct power to batteries or to loads. The controller will do all the job for you.

newl · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree wrote: »

was told they do not ship to Panama. Now on to plan "B".

There are many services within the U.S. that will cross. If they're what you want and need, perhaps that path is worth considering.

Surfpath · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree wrote: »

I will move the system into the Deposito (work shop) and set it up there. Minimizes a lot of cable runs and should be better for monitoring and maintenance. Needed a small utility closet for brooms, etc anyway (didn't have an area for these items).

This means I will have to run AC out of the deposito into the house where the power panels are. The distance will be ~35 ft - (X3). I estimate (not good with this wiring thing) that a #6 or #4 for the AC run should be sufficient (cheaper than a 2/0 or 4/0 cable at ~15 ft).
Yup, nice. Long runs are always better in AC than DC
Another consideration will be running the panel wires into the deposito from on top of the house. This should not be too extreme either. I estimate additional wire of ~20 feet (X2) for this run into the deposito.
Keep in mind your panel, equipment, and house grounds (basically, you should ground anything metal/conductive). Not to get too complex now, but if you ensure that all ground wires can converge to a single conductive rod, with your panel ground going directly to this rod (and not through the house), you ought to be set.

Will be looking at a wireless network for monitoring in the house.
If you get a monitoring system, like the OB Mate, it can be placed inside your house allowing remote monitoring.

We also discussed having a small generator for times when I have to do battery maintenance. This is because there will be no main power into the deposito, but will be able to go on the grid for times when I have to take the batteries off line, unless of course I put in a parallel string of batteries. I notice that a few folks on the forums use the Honda 3000i for a backup genet.

Unsure what you mean by taking the batteries off line for maintenance, but I concur you will likely need a smallish genset to top off those batteries when the Panama rainy season really kicks in, or if you need to do a lot of water tank pumping when the "development water pump goes down".

It will feel great when you get that roof covered. I'd also start thinking about how you are going to mount your panels. What mounting approach will you take? Will you use metal struts, hanger bolts, etc, etc. No specific suggestions, but check out the area where the panels will be and start to brainstorm. I am not sure of your build plan, but perhaps it makes sense to install your panel racks, and complete all wiring before your finish buttoning up the underneath of the roof (ie if you are installing insulation/dryboard/wood/etc).
A few ideas,
-SP

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Surfpath wrote: »

It will feel great when you get that roof covered. I'd also start thinking about how you are going to mount your panels. What mounting approach will you take? Will you use metal struts, hanger bolts, etc, etc. No specific suggestions, but check out the area where the panels will be and start to brainstorm. I am not sure of your build plan, but perhaps it makes sense to install your panel racks, and complete all wiring before your finish buttoning up the underneath of the roof (ie if you are installing insulation/dryboard/wood/etc).
A few ideas,
-SP

Thanks for your ideas. I will have access to the attic so I can do work up there, the roofing material is the corrugated roofing so I can run wires in from the roof, but your suggestion makes sense. Will be discussing this with the builder.

Still formulating my maintenance strategy for the battery system. Know that it will be the key to maximizing longevity.

Thanks again

Cheers

Ernest

inetdog · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree wrote: »

Thanks for your ideas. I will have access to the attic so I can do work up there, the roofing material is the corrugated roofing so I can run wires in from the roof, but your suggestion makes sense. Will be discussing this with the builder.

Another thing to watch out for is having plumbing vent pipes, fan outlets, heater flues, or chimneys etc. popping out of the roof in a position where they will either be in the way of the panels because they are so close together or will throw unwanted shade on the panels.

vtmaps · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Panamretiree wrote: »

I can run wires in from the roof

That means you might be running lightning into your home. I like the systems where the combiner box is on roof or side of building and the wires from the panel frames and combiner ground run down the side of the building to a ground rod and the power wires enter the building down near the ground rod.

--vtMaps

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

inetdog wrote: »

Another thing to watch out for is having plumbing vent pipes, fan outlets, heater flues, or chimneys etc. popping out of the roof in a position where they will either be in the way of the panels because they are so close together or will throw unwanted shade on the panels.

No protrusions through the roofs here, not an issue.

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

vtmaps wrote: »

That means you might be running lightning into your home. I like the systems where the combiner box is on roof or side of building and the wires from the panel frames and combiner ground run down the side of the building to a ground rod and the power wires enter the building down near the ground rod.

--vtMaps

Will be looking at running conduit down the side of the house to the workshop. I will be asking the builder to cut into the concrete wall so I can bury the conduit into the wall. Combiners on the side of the house under the eaves is a good idea. I guess I will be hammering in a ground rod at the back of the workshop.

Cheers

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Have pictures of the roof construction for viewing.

In no particular order. Very lite construction compared to up north.

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More to follow in second post.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Second set of roof pics.

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Photo of the development from roof level.

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Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

I'm thinking for panel placement, I can split them between front and back with a slight down angle as suggested for cleaning, rain drainage, and keeping the panels clean. Having them on the end really won't achieve much.

My thoughts

Cheers

Ernest

Blackcherry04 · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Very interesting construction. Is that a Utility pole over by the other houses ??

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

Very interesting construction. Is that a Utility pole over by the other houses ??

BC - yes it is. It is also where the power is distributed to the houses. I will have a feed from there. It is also the only light in the house area right now.

The construction is rather interesting. Hard to fathom it can handle the roof material, but it does. No heavy loads here.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Interesting conversation last night over dinner. The rainy season has not started, and people are getting concerned about power outages. Over half of the electricity generated down here is hydro-electric and the water tables are apparently down considerably.

This brings topics like solar power to the fore. There is a fellow here who says he can help me because he knows a fellow who has a warehouse full of solar power equipment back in the States. My question to him was why hasn't he done anything with it to date.

People will get over the lack of rain when their power stays on, even with a few outages.

The renewable energy Paper I have found on Panama mentions that wind power is being looked at seriously because of the "S" shape of Panama is well situated to take advantage of the trade winds during the dry season when wind on the Caribbean is abundant, and hydro-electric power is more affected by lack of water.

In Panama yesterday, good trip. Found an energy star rated fan. The energy star rating comes from the CFM rating of the fan in this case, not the power rating. It was ~6200 CFM at 77W on high and ~3100 at 30W on medium speed. May be a good alternative for the rooms that are not used very often.

More looking to do. Will be contacting the customs broker soon to get the details on importing RE equipment.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

A little more on the electricity front down here. The President has declared a national emergency because the water levels in the dams are extremely low - 2 feet above minimum level. Over 50% of the power generated down here is hydro-electric. He has decreed that all schools, including universities are to be shut down for three days, all government offices will be open from 0730 to 1300 only, with AC to be operated at specific times. All businesses and industries have been requested to participate as well. Malls have shut down lights, minimized AC, stopped operating escalators and elevators. The general public has been requested to conserve as well.

There are a lot of projects underway, but it takes time. There are incentives but none for residential consumers. President Martinelli would do well to implement measures immediately to subsidize solar and wind power generation for residential consumers. Since all solar and wind power equipment is imported, allow the import to be duty free. Provide some form of subsidy, anything would be beneficial, but the duty is the big one.

The owners of the Development here have asked President Martinelli to visit the establishment because they want to promote it as Eco friendly and it will be using solar power.

Enough of the rant. Back to the business of sourcing and finalizing what we are going to do.

Cheers

Ernest

Panamretiree · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Is there a thread that I can visit to get information and direction on using a stand alone generator to augment a solar installation? I want to hook it in to the system and use it for peak loads, battery charging and the likes.

Cheers

Ernest

westbranch · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Yes, read the threads started by Chris Olson, this one in particular http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?18459-Demonstration-of-Generator-Support

BB. · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

Here are a few major threads about generators:

Demonstration of Generator Support
Question about battery charger selection with EU2000 generator.
Choosing a good generator
genset alternator failure (and if your generator is not generating AC? What to look for/do--Thread started by "Unicornio" from Spain)

These would be a good start to understand some of the range of issues.

-Bill

Blackcherry04 · May 2013

Re: Bulding new Off Grid Home in Panama

I get what your up against down there. I wouldn't underestimate how nice it would be to have that Grid Power brought into the property if you can. It would open a whole range of options that just having a generator as a backup wouldn't, it would allow you to size the generator differently and just include more options for you. You have to think long term of things you cannot foresee right now.

Building new Off Grid Home in Panama

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