First Post - What would you guys recommend??

Rkg76
Rkg76 Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Hi all....I have been reading a lot of the threads on here recently as I purchased a smaller (900 sq ft) off grid cabin up in Canada on Lake of the Woods.

What I am wondering about is just the initial set-up of just a battery bank so I don't have to run the Honda EU3000is at night. What would be some of your recommendations if I initially did not want to invest in bunch of solar panels and just wanted to charge the batteries via the generator?

A couple of notes, the cabin is fully wired in for AC and what I would be running at night off the batteries would be 2 ceiling fans (maybe 8 to 10 hours each) not even installed yet, 2 13 W CFL's for max 4 hours/night, and some nights, a 32in LCD TV and sat receiver for approx 4 hrs each.

Was thinking about going with maybe 4 costco 220 amp hour golf cart batteries (not sure if that is enough, too much?), but not sure what would be ideal in terms of charging those batteries and what inverter might be good for this purpose.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??

    Welcome to the forum.

    Which "lake of the woods" would that be? There's at least two in British Columbia alone! :D

    You can indeed use a generator in place of solar panels to charge up batteries for "quiet power". I did it for quite a while - waiting for the last component to show up so I could connect the panels! For some reason the shipper had sent it to the fire department. Never did figure out why.

    You need to get a good number for Watt hours that you use. It doesn't sound like you've got any heavy draws there, so it might be possible to run the whole AC load through a Kill-A-Watt meter and get some real world numbers on your consumption. Otherwise you're just guessing, and that inevitably means you have a 1/3 chance of getting it right.

    Once you have that number you can properly size both the inverter (to handle maximum total Watts all at once) and battery bank (to supply total Watt hours). I would suggest you seriously consider getting an inverter with built-in charger, as it is likely to work better than a stand-alone charger and inverter. And for preference 24 Volt system. But you can't be certain of anything without usage numbers, except that the usage will go up over time. Once you have some power, you want more.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??

    Oh, and re your satellite receiver, don't know about the other signal suppliers, but plenty experience with Bell. If you only have it on for a few hours a day, it will eventually shut down on you and you'll have to call in to get a "hit" to reactivate it. I even tried mine on a timer with it off for only 4 or 5 hours per night, still lost programming.
    Beyond that, it's as Cariboocoot stated, gotta get a good handle on your usage, THEN comes battery bank size you'll need. After that, what charge will be needed to keep them charged and healthy. BTW, solar panels are awsome for topping up the batteries to fully charged state after you bulk them with the generator, rather than run the genny all that time.
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  • Rkg76
    Rkg76 Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Welcome to the forum.

    Which "lake of the woods" would that be? There's at least two in British Columbia alone! :D

    And for preference 24 Volt system. .

    Lake of the Woods in North Western Ontario...a couple hours east of Winnipeg!

    Curious as why you suggest a 24 volt system as compared to a 12 volt system?
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  • Rkg76
    Rkg76 Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Oh, and re your satellite receiver, don't know about the other signal suppliers, but plenty experience with Bell. If you only have it on for a few hours a day, it will eventually shut down on you and you'll have to call in to get a "hit" to reactivate it. I even tried mine on a timer with it off for only 4 or 5 hours per night, still lost programming.
    Beyond that, it's as Cariboocoot stated, gotta get a good handle on your usage, THEN comes battery bank size you'll need. After that, what charge will be needed to keep them charged and healthy. BTW, solar panels are awsome for topping up the batteries to fully charged state after you bulk them with the generator, rather than run the genny all that time.

    I do actually have a Bell system as well and that only happened once last summer (the system is completely shut down during the week when we are not there). I has wondered what happened when we had lost all but a couple of channels and had to call in to get it fixed.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??
    Rkg76 wrote: »
    Lake of the Woods in North Western Ontario...a couple hours east of Winnipeg!

    Curious as why you suggest a 24 volt system as compared to a 12 volt system?

    On the whole, a 12 Volt system presents some problems with the amount of current used for any given amount of power. It is best to use them only where there is a specific need for 12 VDC, as in an RV application. Otherwise if you can go 24 Volts you should.

    See this thread: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?15989-Battery-System-Voltages-and-equivalent-power

    There are some forum members who have 12 Volt systems that work fine for their needs, and others who now wish they had gone for 24 to begin with. It's easier to judge once you know how much power you'll need to supply.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??

    I'm one of those who unfortunately painted myself into a 12 volt corner. Starting out, I had no inkling that one day I'd be running my whole house off grid (except for running the heat pump spring and late fall) Now with the loads I have, the 12 volt currents are 2 times as large as they would be if I had a 24 volt system, which leads to extra cable losses, very heavy cables, and limits on wattage the controllers can handle. Right now, I'm at the max I can get from a 12 volt system, and that sucks. If I had it to do over again, I'd definitely go 24 volts. But unfortunately I had no idea the size it would eventually become.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??

    I am in the same boat. Too many 12 vdc things to warrant a change. radio, phone system,paddle fan, battery charger, and perhaps most problematic, the fridge control board.

    I would consider moving to 24 vdc except for the fridge. If and when my LP fridge dies, I might move to a good energy star 120 vac fridge, find a 24 vdc radio and run another 120 vac paddle fan. (I already run one 120 volt fan, I wouldn't buy another 12 vdc one)

    I wish that Morningstar would make a 24 vdc, ~600 watt Sursine.

    Tony
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  • Rkg76
    Rkg76 Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??

    Great info....thanks guys! I am sure I will have more questions as I get more into having an off grid cabin! For this spring i will start with getting a good feel for how much power I actually am using at night in order to be able to size things correctly.
    Russ
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??
    Rkg76 wrote: »
    Great info....thanks guys! I am sure I will have more questions as I get more into having an off grid cabin! For this spring i will start with getting a good feel for how much power I actually am using at night in order to be able to size things correctly.
    Russ
    Glad you found our responses a help. Oh, and don't ignore your daytime electricity use, as it will affect what will be needed to recharge your batteries while still supplying those loads.
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  • Endurance
    Endurance Solar Expert Posts: 40 ✭
    #11
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??

    You didn't mention a fridge. I have a 12v system on a houseboat with similar loads to yours plus a 36" residential side-by-side fridge. I use a Honda eu3000is during the day. I have eight GC-2 size batteries, but more than half of my load is keeping the fridge running in 110 degree weather. The advice to get hard numbers with a kill-a-watt meter is good, but your estimate of four GC-2 batteries is about right given that you have less than half the load I have with eight batteries.

    Even though I have a 12 volt system, that has to do with running marine stuff like radios, nav equipment, and pumps. Unless you have stuff like that, the 24 volt system is a better fit for you.
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  • Rkg76
    Rkg76 Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: First Post - What would you guys recommend??
    Endurance wrote: »
    You didn't mention a fridge.

    No, the fridge, stove, hot water tank, and heater are all propane fired.
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